Newbie / Question about Accompaniment

[An Marcach]

Hello all,

 

I'm very excited to have finally started playing the Anglo; I've wanted to for years, but being an extremely broke college student, there was no way I could afford to invest in a decent instrument (or even a not-so decent one, really). Now I'm loaning a Rochelle, and am plugging away with Bertram Levy's Anglo Concertina Demystified tutor to familiarize myself.

 

I'm currently at the part where he's on about the accompaniment for the tune Constant Billy. I've feared this day, but I knew it was inevitable; my coordination is awful. I've played the guitar, the flute and whistle, and bass clarinet, and have also played around with the piano (my brother plays, so we have one here that I've dabbled with a few times). The problem I always had with the guitar and the piano are very similar to what's happening now with the accompaniment for this song; one hand does one thing, while the other does another (in the case with the guitar, after years of playing, I'm still not able to sing while I play, despite how natural some of the playing may be and that I can hold a conversation while playing). I've only just begun to be able to tap my foot while playing the flute/whistle, and can only do it with a few reels that I'm very familiar with playing.

 

My question would be this; is this the sort of thing that eventually comes out of loads and loads of practice and playing, or am I forever doomed to being unable to focus attention evenly on two things at the same time? My rhythm is fine, I can play with a metronome, so I'm not worried about that, it's just the coordination or sort of 'divided focus' that's required to do two things at once that throws me way off. I can play constant billy at the same speed as he does on the cd without a problem, but when I try to throw the accompaniment in there, it's a disaster and everything falls off the rails. My approach now is that I'm basically re-learning the song with the accompaniment, slowly, bit by bit. It's quite frustrating, but I'm wondering if that's an okay approach to take and one won't mess me up in the future. Is it okay to move forward with the book and just come back to constant billy's accompaniment as I go, or should I wait until after I've gained some coordination to move forward?

 

If anybody's wondering/if it helps any, the style of music/playing I'm aiming to do would be Irish.

 

 

Thanks a mil' for any suggestions!

[Jody Kruskal]

Hello all,

 

I'm very excited to have finally started playing the Anglo; I've wanted to for years, but being an extremely broke college student, there was no way I could afford to invest in a decent instrument (or even a not-so decent one, really). Now I'm loaning a Rochelle, and am plugging away with Bertram Levy's Anglo Concertina Demystified tutor to familiarize myself.

 

I'm currently at the part where he's on about the accompaniment for the tune Constant Billy. I've feared this day, but I knew it was inevitable; my coordination is awful. I've played the guitar, the flute and whistle, and bass clarinet, and have also played around with the piano (my brother plays, so we have one here that I've dabbled with a few times). The problem I always had with the guitar and the piano are very similar to what's happening now with the accompaniment for this song; one hand does one thing, while the other does another (in the case with the guitar, after years of playing, I'm still not able to sing while I play, despite how natural some of the playing may be and that I can hold a conversation while playing). I've only just begun to be able to tap my foot while playing the flute/whistle, and can only do it with a few reels that I'm very familiar with playing.

 

My question would be this; is this the sort of thing that eventually comes out of loads and loads of practice and playing, or am I forever doomed to being unable to focus attention evenly on two things at the same time? My rhythm is fine, I can play with a metronome, so I'm not worried about that, it's just the coordination or sort of 'divided focus' that's required to do two things at once that throws me way off. I can play constant billy at the same speed as he does on the cd without a problem, but when I try to throw the accompaniment in there, it's a disaster and everything falls off the rails. My approach now is that I'm basically re-learning the song with the accompaniment, slowly, bit by bit. It's quite frustrating, but I'm wondering if that's an okay approach to take and one won't mess me up in the future. Is it okay to move forward with the book and just come back to constant billy's accompaniment as I go, or should I wait until after I've gained some coordination to move forward?

 

If anybody's wondering/if it helps any, the style of music/playing I'm aiming to do would be Irish.

 

 

Thanks a mil' for any suggestions!

 

Hi An Marcash,

 

Welcome to the forum. I have a few suggestions for you.

 

It is not a good plan to learn Anglo melodies and then think to go back and add in the accompaniment later. The instrument really does not work that way. As you have noticed, it's like learning the tune all over again. If you want to learn an English tune like Constant Billy with the melody right / accompaniment left way of playing, then it is best to break it down into small bite sized pieces and at a very s l o w pace use both hands. Then, bit by bit, put the little pieces together into fragments, then the fragments together into phrases, then the phrases together into sections and then finally the sections together into the whole tomato... all done with both hands at the same time.

 

Practice those bits at a tempo that you can actually play. Whatever you do, don't practice faster than you can play.

 

Another way to say this is... select your bit; the first 2 notes? fine then, 2 notes it is, with both hands. Loop that bit and play it over and over again without pause. Find a tempo that is good for you and stick with that until you can play your bit at least three times in a row without mistake. Then move on to the next 2 notes. Do the same with them, then loop all 4 notes and do the same with them... etc.

 

If you want help, I would be happy to guide you in your quest for accompaniment. http://jodykruskal.com/concertina_lessons.html

 

However... if it's Irish that you are aiming at, then learning Constant Billy with an accompanied style should not be what you work on. Get yourself a proper Irish tutor book. Someone here will recommend one to you, I'm sure.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jody Kruskal

[Bill N]

Coincidentally, it was while working on Constant Billy from Bertram's book that I had my aha!-two-hands- working- together moment. For about the first year of playing anglo I'd try and try and try, and except for octave playing, just couldn't do it. Then, Boom, I could. Don't really know why, except perhaps I was overthinking and trying too hard initially, and when it finally did happen, the left hand wasn't my main and only goal, I was just learning a tune. It didn't end up being as hard as I thought it was going to be.

 

I would second Jody's comment about learning chords and melody together. Often you'll pick different buttons/bellows directions than if you were only playing the melody. I took a couple of workshops with Jody, and now usually approach a new tune the way he suggests. It's pretty easy to learn a new tune this way, but a number of tunes that I learned early on, I still can't play a left hand part for. Interestingly, I now sometimes find it difficult (but not impossible) to play melody only for a tune that I have "Kruskalized"!

 

I am presently learning to play some Irish/Newfoundland stuff and don't seem to be having any trouble going back and forth between the 2 styles.

[Jody Kruskal]

Coincidentally, it was while working on Constant Billy from Bertram's book that I had my aha!-two-hands- working- together moment. For about the first year of playing anglo I'd try and try and try, and except for octave playing, just couldn't do it. Then, Boom, I could. Don't really know why, except perhaps I was overthinking and trying too hard initially, and when it finally did happen, the left hand wasn't my main and only goal, I was just learning a tune. It didn't end up being as hard as I thought it was going to be.

 

I would second Jody's comment about learning chords and melody together. Often you'll pick different buttons/bellows directions than if you were only playing the melody. I took a couple of workshops with Jody, and now usually approach a new tune the way he suggests. It's pretty easy to learn a new tune this way, but a number of tunes that I learned early on, I still can't play a left hand part for. Interestingly, I now sometimes find it difficult (but not impossible) to play melody only for a tune that I have "Kruskalized"!

 

I am presently learning to play some Irish/Newfoundland stuff and don't seem to be having any trouble going back and forth between the 2 styles.

Hi Bill,

 

Yup, that sounds about right. The brain is a mysterious thing.

 

Playing all those um pa chords can and should take many forms. There's more than one way to shake a stick. One of the dozens of variations is to ghost the left hand... that is, to depress the left hand buttons such a short amount of time and with such a light touch that they don't actually sound, or sound very little. If you Kruskalize a tune and want to play melody only, try not pushing the buttons at all, just touch them.

 

I often do that ghosting thing but sometimes just play melody only and yes, it feels quite different and more... melodic.

[Robin Madge]

If you are having real problems with this then go for playing the tune in two octaves. Once you have both hands in action playing the tune an octave apart you can experiment with letting some of the other left hand fingers loose on the adjacent buttons to get some chords going!

 

Robin Madge

[Kautilya]

Leo put up interestin link in his regular intl video treasure roundup

Tks Leo.

This chord demonstrator ain't bad at all for fumblers such as me and may help those discussing accompaniment on both hands.

 

BE

 

Accords Concertina Chords

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Alh885wo&fmt=18

__________

[An Marcach]

Thanks a ton everyone, I feel a little bit better about it now.

 

I don't know how to quote in posts, so bear with me:

 

It is not a good plan to learn Anglo melodies and then think to go back and add in the accompaniment later. The instrument really does not work that way. As you have noticed, it's like learning the tune all over again. If you want to learn an English tune like Constant Billy with the melody right / accompaniment left way of playing, then it is best to break it down into small bite sized pieces and at a very s l o w pace use both hands. Then, bit by bit, put the little pieces together into fragments, then the fragments together into phrases, then the phrases together into sections and then finally the sections together into the whole tomato... all done with both hands at the same time.

 

That's what I've started doing it seeing as I couldn't play the melody that I'd learned and merely add in the accompaniment in a rhythmic manner as I went. It's going along quite nicely doing it this way, bit by bit, but I just wanted to make sure that it (i.e. re-learning the whole it like this) wasn't going to do any harm to my playing in the future by means of being a bad habit or something of that sort. And thanks much for the link to the lesson offer; I can't afford them at all right now with my final semester starting (I'm an art student working on her thesis, so it's going to be an intense and expensive semester preparing for my thesis exhibition) but I am hoping that in the near future I can pick up a lesson or two.

 

Reminder to self: patience is a virtue.

 

Does anybody have any suggestions for a good Irish-playing tutor book? I play by ear with my flute and I'm hoping to do that with the concertina, but until I can become more acquainted with the way it works and all of it's notes and fingerings so I can get to that point (though I've managed to pick out the basic melodies to a few jigs so far already), I'd be interested in finding anything that can help with styles of playing or techniques that are commonly used (as opposed to just a tunebook with sheet music).

 

Again thanks a lot everyone! All the help and suggestions are much appreciated.

[Bill N]

Does anybody have any suggestions for a good Irish-playing tutor book? I play by ear with my flute and I'm hoping to do that with the concertina, but until I can become more acquainted with the way it works and all of it's notes and fingerings so I can get to that point (though I've managed to pick out the basic melodies to a few jigs so far already), I'd be interested in finding anything that can help with styles of playing or techniques that are commonly used (as opposed to just a tunebook with sheet music).

 

Again thanks a lot everyone! All the help and suggestions are much appreciated.

 

 

I know others will disagree, but i have found Mick Bramich's "The Irish Concertina: A Tutor for the Anglo Concertina in the Irish Style" , and the accompanying CD very useful. I don't sight read, but this book has keyboard diagrams showing some of the possible button choices for playing each tune, which can give you a good starting point for working out the tune by ear from the CD. This is especially useful when the tune is not in the "home" keys of C or G, but even for those it will give some good suggestions for alternatives to playing up and down the rows which may make the tune easier to play quickly, or change the character (e.g. less bouncy, more flowing). One slight hitch is that your Rochelle is probably in the Wheatstone layout, and the book is really written for the Jeffries layout, although Bramich addresses this, and once you figure out the notes in the 3rd row it's not a big deal. Caveat: I am a relative newbie to the Irish style.

[Marcus]

I agree - Mick Bramich's book and cd are great. I also found Frank Edgely's book to be a really good introduction. John William's DVD was really good also.