concertTina Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 hi everyone! im new to the whole world of concertinas.. well at least to the world of owning them... u see... i have inherited a small collection of concertinas from my great grandfather. i always loved listening to him play them and as a small child was enamored with all the fun buttons and enormous sound! anywayzzz.. i have been doing some research and ended up here on the forum.. i wanted to ask anyone who could help me --- first of all how do i value these concertinas.. do i need to insure them?? should i get them cleaned etc so that they do not deteriorate...?? i would like to learn to play and have downloaded loads of tutorials... also i have tracked down the dates of when some of the concertinas were made.. but am having trouble identifying a few of them. All of the concertinas are wheatstone, i know that much... but how do i know if they are tenor or baritone or...??? and is there anyway to determine the value of them without going to a dealer?? any website anyone can reccomend??? my favorite concertina is a miniature one.. its sooo adorable!! wheatstone 27116.. im guessing its ebony wood.. but the keys looks like white plastic or ivory or something.. how do i find out what material that would be?? just curious! also i have one wheatstone that i medium sized hexagon with 48 buttons.. but the serial number is illegible .. u can just make out the first number which is 2.... sorry this is such a rambling post... but all the reading/web research on concertinas has been a bit overwhelming!!! any advice is much appreciated!!! xoxo, Tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted July 29, 2004 Share Posted July 29, 2004 Tina, A standard first reply, is where are you located? If you tell us, we may have someone nearby who can give you a real evaluation, based on physical examination, which is nearly always necessary. It sounds as if you may have some high-quality instruments, so getting an evaluation and maybe insurance would be wise. Your great-grandfather must have been a serious player! Your Wheatstone 27116 can be looked up in the maker's ledgers; I'll let the experts interpret what you'll find there. Next for you is to start playing! We always encourage new owners to play what they inheirit. Welcome to Concertina.net and xoxo yourself! Ken Assistant bottle-washer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concertTina Posted July 29, 2004 Author Share Posted July 29, 2004 hi ken, thanks for your reply and advice.. i am in wigan, england.. sorry i fogot to mention that before and yes my g grandfather was an incredible musician and just adored his concertinas! he used to perform a great deal both solo and with a band. i would love to learn to play and carry on this great musical tradition. i did come across the concertina.co.uk website and discovered that there is a shop fairly close by.. i guess i would need to have these concertinas physically examined then as you suggested to determine value.. would you reccomend having all the concertinas professionally reconditioned even if i will not be playing them all? i do not want them to sit in the boxes and deteriorate, and i do hope all the concertinas will be played again at some point. cheers! tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wild Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 You have not said what age you are or when your great grandfather lived. However, I would think there is a reasonable supposition that the instruments you have inherited would have been part of a concertina band's instruments. These were prominent in England in the first part of the 20th century. If that is a correct supposition, you very likely have some quality instruments. See Chris Timson's website www.concertina.info, for leads into other sites providing more information. Meanwhile posting details here of the individual instruments, eg maker and serial number, could produce a worthwhile response. Best wishes, John Wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 im new to the whole world of concertinas.. well at least to the world of owning them... Welcome, welcome! i wanted to ask anyone who could help me ---You came to the right place.first of all how do i value these concertinas..Get a properly knowlegeable person to examine them.One of the most knowledgeable is not far from you: Chris Algar of Barleycorn Concertinas, in Stoke on Trent. He will almost certainly try to buy them from you. Don't let him! I like Chris, and he's honorable as well as knowledgeable, but at least for now you should keep all the instruments and try to learn to play them. Only after you've given that a good try (I'd say at least a year) should you decide which of them you want to sell, if any. For what it's worth, I -- and many of us here -- would love to buy all those concertinas from you, but we'll reign in our greed and concertina-lust if we can turn you into a player. do i need to insure them??You may be surprised -- even shocked -- to learn how much they're actually worth.should i get them cleaned etc so that they do not deteriorate...??They're not likely to deteriorate from sitting in their cases at room temperature or below. If you're going to play them, you will find out soon enough whether they need any adjustment. Then we can give you advice on that (how to do simple things, who to see about serious matters).how do i know if they are tenor or baritone or...???By the lowest note. Do you have some knowledge of music? If the lowest note is G below middle C, it's a treble. Lowest note C below middle C is a tenor (or tenor-treble). An octave lower than the treble is a baritone. An octave lower than the tenor is a bass. Lower than that is contrabass. An octave higher than treble is piccolo. But any Wheatstone instrument with a serial no. 25000 or above can be found in the Wheatstone ledgers at the Horniman Museum web site. Your #27116 is described as a 12-button miniature English-system concertina with 8-sided, nickel-plated ends, made (finished?) Nov. 19, 1920. No mention of the button material, but maybe one of our experts here knows from the date whether it's likely to be bone, ivory, or plastic. In any case, someone seeing it could probably tell. The one with the unreadable serial no. almost certainly has a readable number inside. If you just remove the 6 or 8 end bolts around the edge of one end, you should be able to lift the end off without disturbing anything. Look both on the underside of what you lift off and on what you've lifted it from, and there's a good chance you'll find a 5-digit number without having to look deeper. (A 2- or 3-digit number is a non-unique batch number, not the same as the serial no.) Do the instruments all have the same basic keyboard arrangement, with thumb loops and finger plates (except the miniature) for holding them? Or do some have bar-and-strap assemblies to slip the hands into, and a different arrangement of the buttons? The former is known as the English system. The latter could be either an anglo (different notes on push and pull) or a duet (same note on push and pull). and is there anyway to determine the value of them without going to a dealer??Well, one of us could drop by and give an estimate. Not me, unfortunately, though I wish I could. I live in Denmark, and probably won't be able to get to England again before autumn. Another possibility is to take digital pictures and post them on a web site or send them to one or more of us for opinions. But we'll probably want internal pictures, as well, and some things -- like speed of response, tone, and dynamic range -- can only be judged in person. any website anyone can reccomend??? You've found it! Just keep feeding us information and asking questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 u see... i have inherited a small collection of concertinas from my great grandfather. i always loved listening to him play them and as a small child was enamored with all the fun buttons and enormous sound! My other reply was pretty long. This one separates out different parts of your post. Like John Wild, I'm curious how old you are, how old your great grandfather was, and how long he played concertina. (I remember visiting my great grandfather when he was 96 and I was at university. Alas, he didn't play concertina, and I didn't yet even know about them.) From what you say, I guess he never taught you to play. A pity. Can you tell us what sort of music he played? Did he leave any music to go with the instruments? Did he play in a band, or do solo performing? Do you have any photos, recordings, newspaper clippings or other scrapbook items? Some of us would be extremely interested in any and all such historical things, but I think especially the music. Once again, welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Another thing about this community...it is very polite, but at times our enthusiasm takes over from out training in etiquette. Like my colleagues here asking repeatedly how old someone is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concertTina Posted July 30, 2004 Author Share Posted July 30, 2004 hello everyone, im 16 years old and do have a bit of musical knowledge (i play the piano and clarinet).. my great grandad was 92 i think! sorry for the confusion regarding my age. i was so pleased to read all the responses and want to thankyou all for your help! and yes we do have loads and loads of old sheet music.. and lots of personal compositions from my g.grandfather as well...i have lots of research to do now but i will get back to the forum when i have found out more information best regards, tina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart estell Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 i would love to learn to play and carry on this great musical tradition. Just reading this line put a big smile on my face. Best of luck to you Tina, and welcome to the world of a strange but wonderful musical instrument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dickey Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Hi Tina Could I suggest that you got someone to bring you over to the Bradfield Traditional Music Weekend on the 13th to 15th August where you will find quite a considerable number of concertina enthusiasts most of whom will be able to give you guidance and advice and not try to pinch your concertinas from you. In addition you will also be able to hear what these instruments should sound like. The event is being arranged by Mark Davies and you can find details by doing a search for Bradfield on this site or go to this link:- http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...st=0entry8754 Bradfield is immediately North of Sheffield on the edge of the Peak District and will be about 70 miles travel for you skirting Manchester and Glossop. Hope to see you there Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 30, 2004 Share Posted July 30, 2004 In addition you will also be able to hear what these instruments should sound like. You mean a broader range, no? Don't forget that she's heard her great grandfather. By the way, I do hope Tina didn't think my question about her age was rude. If I had met her in person, I wouldn't have needed to ask, but I also live in a country where birthdays are celebrated! Besides, age should never be something to be ashamed of. I'm really pleased to know that we have enthusiastic "young blood", hoping to carry on her great grandfather's tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourdoh Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 Welcome Tina, I just want to second (or third) the suggestion that you keep all the concertinas for a long period before you decide if you really want to part with any. But I also wanted to say the instruments are not the only thing of value. You mention that you have alot of sheet music, including compositions of your g. grandfather's. These too have a value. I suggest you check with a good library or antique book restorer to see if there is anything that needs to be done to preserve them. (And if you decide to share some that are past copyright, I can think of one person who is interested in copies .) -Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 ...if you decide to share some that are past copyright, I can think of one person who is interested in copies . And I can think of quite a few, besides myself and Keith... including a group known as the International Concertina Association, which maintains a library of music specifically for the concertina. (Many ICA members -- including more than half of the ICA managing Committee -- are also members here on Concertina.net.) Whatever you decide to do with the originals, I'm sure the ICA would very much like to have copies for their library. Tina -- and anyone else, -- if you want to know more, please ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Posted July 31, 2004 Share Posted July 31, 2004 I will also join in to say keep all the instruments until you have decided which ones you really really like from playing experience (this may, of course, be all of them!). If they are all the same system (perhaps English system, as described by Jim), then this won't be difficult as they will all work the same way. And I'll also join the chorus that says how wonderful that you want to play them. I have a friend who has a concertina that belonged to his grandfather, my friend is a musician, but he is hesitating about discovering the delights of his inheritance. Jump right in, Tina! samantha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concertTina Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 (edited) hi everyone that's replied!!! i had no idea anyone would be interested in the sheet music for concertinas.. very interesting.. well at any rate i have talked to my grandmum who knows more about the sheet music.. in fact, she and my auntie are the ones that have it.. i will see what i can do to have a look through it all. also i will hold on to the concertinas ... i wouldnt think of just selling all of them especially since they have been in my family -- alot of sentimental value thanks again for everyone's encouragement and helpful advice!!!!!!!!!! regards, tina and mum Edited August 2, 2004 by concertTina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterhurst Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 (edited) Hi Tina I live in Haydock near Wigan. I think I met your great grandfather many years ago, whilst doing research on North west players. I am willing to look at your Concertinas for you and if you want to I will help you get started in playing. Email me and I will give you my Telephone number. Peter Hurst. Sorry about the earlier mistake, I don,t know why I called you Ken, old age I guess Peter Edited August 2, 2004 by peterhurst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Davies Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Bradfield Traditional Music Weekend Harry Litherland, a fine McCann Duet player from Aspull near Wigan will be attending the weekend along with many other concertina players.For further details of the weekend I can be contacted on- Home:0114 2851479 Mobile:07850475067 Email:edeophone@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Welcome Tina and Mum, Sorry I was off the net since July 28th and missed all of your posts. I am thrilled for you. What a legacy. Have lots of fun trying out all of the concertinas and learning how to play. I am happy you are keeping the instruments and have music to go with them. There are also tutors if you decide you would like to go that route. The best of luck to you. And also to your mum, perhaps she'll learn to play also. Have fun. Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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