Theo Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 I have a chance to buy a concertina from a local antique dealer, which I think may be a rather unusual instrument. I have not seen one like this before so I am looking for some advice and information from the formidable bank of knowledge available through c.net. It is a hexagonal, 48 key English system with a Wheatstone, Conduit St, paper label. It has dark brown wooden ends, and ivory (not bone) buttons. The buttons are not coloured in any way. There is no serial number externally, and the reedpans are marked with L and R but again no visible serial number. The inside of the bellows frame is numbered 589 handwritten. There are circular paper labels on the pans identifying the notes. No makers name on these labels. The reeds are steel, and look to be in good condition with some very light traces of rust, and no sign of abuse. The ends of the reed shoes are rounded. The action is "Lachenal type" hook and eye. The instrument is pretty well in tune with itself, but I was unable to check the pitch in the shop. The unusual feature is that the wooden ends are edged with ivory, and there is an ivory inlaid pattern at each corner. It comes with a rosewood box, complete with key! The box and reedpans are marked with a name and address of a music dealer called Vickers, sorry I did not get any more details of that address. My questions are: Is this a Wheatstone - the action suggests it might not be? Is it a special model as suggested by the ivory work? Is the handwritten number on the bellows a manufacturers serial number? Should I buy it? Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Hi Theo, In case you haven't already checked here is the site of Neil Wayne's Wheatstone History: http://www.d-and-d.com/contributions/tina-history.html In scanning the article I saw some information about the reed pan labeling that may be of use to you. It is my understanding that Wheatstone used the hook and lever action until Lachenal left. My rosewood hex model #1073 has a very carefully done brass hook and lever action. Shoes are square. Reeds nickel silver. Best of luck, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 Greg, Thanks, I read that article some time ago, and its been useful re-reading it. This instrument has none of the "early" features listed in the article, apart from no external serial number. The aspect of the instrument that interests me is the ivory work on the ends, which has been done to a very high standard, and presumably was some sort of special model. I can't find anything similar in the forum archives or by web searches. I'm hoping that some of the collector/researchers on this site can shed some light. The ivory edges to the ends give it a very prominent white visual "frame" and make it a very attractive looking instrument. Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Theo, Is this a Wheatstone - the action suggests it might not be? Lachenal made many instruments for Wheatstone between the mid to late 1840s and the mid to late 1860s. The suggestion in Neil Wayne's work that Lachenal 'left' Wheatstone seems to be misplaced in the light of more recent research - he needs to be thought of as a 'sub-contractor', rather than an employee. Part one of Stephen Chamber's article on Lachenal may be found at the Maccann Duet website with part 2 to to follow shortly. These two articles will answer most of the queries. Is it a special model as suggested by the ivory work? Corner Inlay Decoration on Wheatstones is quite rare, but not unknown, especialy in early instruments. I'm not aware of a fully edged instrument. But steel reeds are not normal in early instruments, unless replaced later. Vickers labels will be of little help - established c.1880, and became JJ Vickers & Son in the mid 1920s. Is the handwritten number on the bellows a manufacturers serial number? Not from Wheatstone - #589 was a 32 key English. Round end reed shoes start appearing in Wheatstones about #1800, so a misread of #1589 is not likely either. I would have expected later Wheatstone (and Lachenal) to be prominantly serial-number stamped internally, so I'd question if the Wheatstone label was original. Should I buy it? Only you can decide that!! Over to Stephen? ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Over to Stephen? ..... Thanks Wes, as you have already said, it doesn't sound right for Wheatstone #589, though it could be another story if it was #1589, as it was in the 15xx series that they started to use the round-ended reedframes, but the hand-written number sounds wrong. However, the printed paper labels on the reedpans certainly make it sound like a Wheatstone or a Lachenal, do they appear to have had a name removed from them ? The steel reeds are easily explained if it has been through the hands of J.J.Vickers, as in my experience the firm made excellent steel reeds and probably replaced the original reeds in this instrument. The ivory edging sounds most unusual. Without seeing photos, or better still the instrument, I cannot begin to say who made it, but I am left wondering if Vickers might have assembled it from parts of more than one concertina. It certainly sounds interesting ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Thank you Stephen and Wes for allowing me to benefit from your experience. The labels on the reed pans show no sign of being altered to remove a makers name. The handwritten number on the bellows was very clear and I thing I would have noticed if it was 1589 rather than 589. Actually the bellows looked as if they could have been replaced. The ivory buttons showed extensive wear, but the bellows looked fairly new, so perhaps the bellows and frames were not the original - maybe fitted by Vickers? I saw a Lachenal on ebay recently which had some ivory(?) inlay in a similar pattern -at each corner a small disc, with a swag on either side of the disc. I am wondering if this is a Lachenal, and whether the ivory edging was a later addition. I will try to get some photographs, even if I don't buy it. Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Groff Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Theo, I agree that having the instrument in hand would be best, and that even then we might not be able to identify the maker. But more food for thought: The late Frank Butler wrote in correspondence to me (see also his letter in Concertina & Squeezebox, Vol II (Autumn, 1984), p. 24) that Nickolds "used to make concertinas and put Wheatstone labels on them, retained from the days when he actually worked for Wheatstone. [John] Crabb parted from Nickolds because of this fraudulent practice." This is Frank's perspective on the demise of the "Nickolds and Crabb" partnership that (along with Jones) claimed to have invented the anglo-german concertina. Possibly Geoff Crabb will have another perspective on this story. Several other makers made instruments like the one you describe, and of course a Wheatstone label could have been added to any of them. But if Vickers was last to work on the instrument and retail it, my intuition would be that they would not have created a forgery themselves, or knowingly sold one. I agree with Stephen that they seem to have maintained high standards and to have enjoyed a good reputation. Certainly some of the instruments I have seen with their labels were top-class and one semi-miniature I own retains a beautiful unequal temperament; whether this tuning was their work I can't say. I have always wondered if there was some relationship between the Vickers music (and bicycle?) shop and Albert Vickers of the "Vickers Gun," whose factory was in Crayford, Kent, in the 1880s. Stephen or Wes? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 1, 2004 Author Share Posted August 1, 2004 Well I bought it today! here is a picture or two. The second is a close up of the thumbstrap screw. It is ornately engraved and includes the initials MC. The initials, combined with the fancy ivory work suggests to me that it was a one-off, made specially for mr/ms MC Thanks for all the invaluable advice so far. Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 1, 2004 Author Share Posted August 1, 2004 (edited) And I can find no serial numbers anywhere. This is the thumstrap screw head. And a quick check with the tuner shows that it is about a quarter tone sharp of A=440, but pretty well in tune with itself. Edited August 1, 2004 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 What a gorgeous little box, Theo! How did you contain yourself from buying it right away!? I'd love to see a picture of the action mechanism. That could supply some important clues for Stephen and Paul. It would also be a treat to see the reed pans. Way to go! I'm glad it has found a good home. Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Well I bought it today! Congratulations! here is a picture or two. Beautiful! But if that string is holding the thumb strap in place, please get rid of it before it pulls a piece of fretwork loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Theo, From what I can see of it, that looks like a high-quality instrument built by Lachenal, quite possibly for Wheatstone's (in which case it was made between 1848-58). I still think that the label on the reedpan once bore the name of one of those two firms, though dealers sometimes removed it, either by scratching it out or by cutting out the inner part of the circle, there should also be a four, or five digit serial number somewhere, but again it may have been removed. If the steel reeds were made by J.J.Vickers, as I suggested they might be, it could turn out to be a nice player. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Stephen Your suggestion that it was made by Lachenal also fits with other details. The 3 woodscrews holding the thumbstraps are arranged in a very shallow triangle which I understand is the Lachenal pattern, and the action which I mentioned before is typical Lachenal. I think I have also seen a similar corner inlay pattern on other Lachenals, but I'm not very knowledgeable on such things. The paper label on the reedpans is narrow, so Its quite possible an inner circle has been cut away. I will look for evidence! The tuning is quite good but has been slightly affected by time/dirt/rust etc, but its is very high, about a quarter tone sharp from a=440. I had to set my electronic tuner to a=455 to register the notes correctly. quite a few buttons play noticebly differently on press and draw, so I don't expect to be able to identify the tuning/temperament originally used. A couple of reeds look much newer and have clearly been replaced, or re-tongued. It does seem to play very nicely, very resonsive, and loud but sweet tone, though I'm not a player of English system so its only an inexpert imprerssion. I'll try to get a set of photos posted on a webpage, but here is another one for now Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 A selection of phots can be viewed here Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 The paper label on the reedpans is narrow, so Its quite possible an inner circle has been cut away. I will look for evidence! Having now seen a picture of it, I am convinced that the label has indeed been severely "trimmed" for some reason. Is there anything to suggest that serial numbers might also have been removed ? It does seem to play very nicely, very resonsive, and loud but sweet tone, As I said, J.J.Vickers seem to have made excellent reeds. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 A selection of phots can be viewed here It looks a real gem. Is it just my imagination, or are those reeds wider than the usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Viehoff Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 The hand-written serial number looks like 539 not 589. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 2, 2004 Author Share Posted August 2, 2004 Is it just my imagination, or are those reeds wider than the usual? Yes the reeds do look very wide, especially the lower notes. The hand-written serial number looks like 539 not 589. Yes it is, my mistake! Having now seen a picture of it, I am convinced that the label has indeed been severely "trimmed" for some reason. Is there anything to suggest that serial numbers might also have been removed ? On closer examination the inner edge of the label has a hand cut look about it, but I can't see any evidence of serial number removal on reed pans or ends. Perhaps I will find more when I start to remove some of the dirt! Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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