Rochelle gen 1 vs gen 2

[Shas Cho]

Moderators, feel free to move this topic if you feel you must

but it is very much a part of my buying and selling.

 

I've been offered a good deal on a first generation Rochelle.

My primary consideration to is acquire a functional, responsive concertina

(at a price I can manage,

which is just barely perhaps the going rate for a new Rochelle)

on which to learn and develop my skills.

I don't want to save a few bucks and find myself discouraged,

nor do I want to spend dollars without significant gain in playability.

I am aware that the Rochelle has been given new and, presumably, improved reeds,

but beyond that I have been unable to find a nuts-and-bolts description

of the changes from generation 1 to generation 2.

 

Can someone give me

(and no doubt others with the same question)

a simple run-down on the differences between the two iterations of the Rochelle?

 

Has anyone here played the two versions side-by side?

A description of that experience would be most enlightening.

 

And as I have taken up this much of your time,

please let me offer sincere thanks to Wim Wakker

for providing an accessible yet functional instrument

for us beginners to commence our concertina journeys.

I appreciate it very much,

and I hope it leads to many sales of his high-end instruments.

In fact, I would expect it to benefit ALL of the makers of quality concertinas.

 

Shas

[Shas Cho]

This is sort of amazing to me-

 

The Rochelle is one of the more popular topics around here,

yet of the hundred or so who have read my question

not a single person can compare the two incarnations?

Maybe it's just my meds,

but I have this feeling that the old-timers are reading my question

and looking at one another from under their eyebrows, thinking

"I'm not gonna tell him. Are you gonna tell him?

Hell, no, I'm not gonna tell him..."

 

Wim?

Bob?

Ted?

Jim?

Anyone?

[Gusten]

Hello,

 

I'm not much of an oldtimer here on the forum, but I'll shed the little light I can.

 

I suspect that not too many have tried the new generation Rochelle. I for one had never heard of it before. What I can tell you though is that I found the original Rochelle a perfect starter instrument. It's what I bought to try if the concertina was for me, and it worked very well. The sound is nice and mellow (many of my friends prefer the Rochelle sound to my Lachenal, but I just grin at them with a "you just don't know better"-experssion), and I had no mechanical problems with it. Well, at one time a spring broke, but the good people at concertinaconnection (right?) sent me a bunch of new springs free of charge.

 

I'm sure this is not the information you were looking for, but at least it's something. I think the Rochelle is a very nice and well worth the price. I still use mine at times, for those times/places that things can get a bit rough, or at home in my chamber when I just want to produce a different sound.

[JimLucas]

The Rochelle is one of the more popular topics around here, yet ... not a single person can compare the two incarnations?

 

Wim?

Bob?

Ted?

Jim?

Anyone?

I'm sure Wim could answer your question, but he's an infrequent poster here, and he's busy enough that I suspect he doesn't read every post on concertina.net or even glance at it daily.

 

I can speculate about the others you've named, but speculate it would be.

 

As for myself, I own two of the first-generation Jackies -- which I loaned to friends and haven't seen in a few years, -- but I've never handled or even seen the newer ones, nor any Rochelle or Elise.

 

I suspect that very few persons, except for Wim himself and a few dealers, have ever handled both editions, and even the dealers may not have had both at the same time for a side-by-side comparison. I certainly don't recall anyone in these Forums telling of "moving up" from an earlier Rochelle to a later one.

 

So don't worry about a conspiracy. The simple truth may be that no one who has read your post has the experience needed to answer your question with confidence. I know I don't.

[Leo]

Hi Shas

 

I agree with Jim. I highly doubt it's been done. The closest I recall is this comparison by one of our members. It's only a very recent addition from around the end of June :

http://irish.cocolog-nifty.com/flute_concertina/2011/07/the-blackthorn.html

 

It was mentioned in this thread. There are a few Rochelle samples, but no side by side comparison:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7283

 

It's not exactly what you ask, but I think it's the closest you'll find.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Shas Cho]

Thanks to Gusten, Jim, and Leo

for their friendly and helpful responses.

I still hope that someone will give us the benefit

of their experience with both iterations of the Rochelle.

It looks like I'll soon have a Rochelle 1.0 of my own

(I'm pretty excited!),

and maybe one of these days I'll post the answer to my own question.

 

In combing through various sites for this information

(thesession.org, chiffandfipple.com, theirishconcertina.com...)

I find a great deal of enthusiasm for Wim's line of entry level instruments.

It is evident that a lot of aspiring concertinists

have gotten their first foot-hold in the world of traditional music

by means of these inexpensive yet entirely usable boxes.

 

I must have read two hundred testimonials,

out of which perhaps two individuals

have been dissatisfied with the instruments

and not one of which was unhappy with Wim

or with the dealer from which the box was obtained.

 

That's a very remarkable set of statistics.

We may look back in twenty years

to find that the Rochelle and its siblings

were responsible for a boom in concertina players

that literally saved both the ethic and the industry.

 

Wim Wakker and his little network of distributors

are true benefactors of humanity.

*applause*

[malcolmbebb]

I am a little tied up to search just now, but I am 99% sure that there was a thread here discussing the differences. You might like to try a search on Rochelle.

 

The two that come to mind are:

 

1) Upgraded reeds - maybe Italian replacing Chinese.

2) Bigger air valve.

 

apart from mechanical changes to accommodate size differences in the above, I can't recall any other changes.

[JimLucas]

...I am 99% sure that there was a thread here discussing the differences. You might like to try a search on Rochelle.

Is this the thread you mean?

 

Shas Cho was the last poster there. It notes the technical difference, but I get the impression that he wants to know what the difference is in how it feels to play the two. And I don't think that has yet been covered.

[malcolmbebb]

...I am 99% sure that there was a thread here discussing the differences. You might like to try a search on Rochelle.

Is this the thread you mean?

 

Shas Cho was the last poster there. It notes the technical difference, but I get the impression that he wants to know what the difference is in how it feels to play the two. And I don't think that has yet been covered.

LOL that sounds like the one - I saw the last post about an hour after I replied! I'd be interested also to hear the difference, although since I have an original Rochelle that I expect to sell later in the year, I'm probably not in the market for a Mk II.

 

Malcolm

[Shas Cho]

...You might like to try a search on Rochelle.

Is this the thread you mean?

 

Shas Cho was the last poster there. It notes the technical difference, but I get the impression that he wants to know what the difference is in how it feels to play the two. And I don't think that has yet been covered.

 

Thanks, Malcomb,

I have searched and read every reference to the Rochelle,

but nowhere can I find any difference but the new reeds.

There has been a lot of speculation,

and a few recommendations

such as a larger air valve,

but no description of other changes.

 

 

Jim, could you list the technical differences noted on that thread?

I've read it again and can find no differences noted besides the reeds.

 

I'm not looking for a subjective review,

though that would be fun to read.

I'm not even asking for a technical review,

though I would have thought that was more or less automatic;

one of the most innovative and arguably important

(and certainly discussed) lines of concertina being built today

is released in a newer, pricier, and presumably better model.

That's news, isn't it?

 

An anomaly in serial numbers in pre-WW1 Wheatstones

would generate reams of discussion and research.

I understand and appreciate that many of the forum participants

are in the way of being concertina connoisseurs

and are interested primarily in high-end or vintage instruments,

and I hope this never becomes a beginners-only pub.

Yet there has been a large and sustained interest

in both iterations of the Rochelle.

I was quite surprised when my searches turned up nothing

in the way of comparisons between them.

 

I'm just asking if anyone can tell us what has changed.

Is it just the "Italian Cagnoni reeds,

which improves both balance and the quality of sound"

(Wim Wakker quote) ,

or is it also a larger gasper hole?

More folds in the redesigned, more supple bellows?

Adjustable handles, to fit all sizes and ages?

 

I've recently come down with a bad case of concertinitis.

The comments here at C-net made it pretty clear to me

that the only realistic and reliable choice of anglo

for a cash-poor patient to obtain and enjoy

is the Rochelle.

I promptly sold a rather special ukulele

and used the proceeds to buy a second-hand, first edition Rochelle.

I'm absurdly eager for it to arrive.

I'm having nightmares about indifferent postal handlers.

And I'm wondering what I might be missing

by not spending more money for Rochelle 2.0.

Or is that merely Rochelle 1.1?

Nobody know but Wim, and he's not telling

 

I've counted six folds on some Rochelles and seven on others,

but as I've seen both on what are said to be second generation instruments

I am more confused and curious than ever.

 

So I'm wondering,

what ARE the changes in the new Rochelle

as compared to the laudable and popular original Rochelle?