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Beginner question - EC fingerstrain (?)


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Following suggestions on the 'Absolute beginner' thread, I finally held an English concertina in my hands today courtesy of the nice man at Hobgoblin; it was a 48-key wooden-ended Scarlatti, nothing special but nicer build quality than the 30-key total-entry-level box they also had (plus, more keys).

 

As recommended on the other thread, I noodled around on it, mainly by hitting a couple of buttons on the middle two rows on one side & seeing what came out; I got quite a nice New Age-y chord sequence going, which felt pretty good for a first attempt. (I didn't try singing - small shop & no other customers!)

 

I'm just not convinced I was holding it right - or rather, if I *was* holding it right, I'm not convinced me and the EC are going to get on. I got my thumbs through the loops & put my little fingers in the little-finger-stirrup-things, but in that position I found it really difficult to bend my fingers back down to the lower notes. Not only that, but my little fingers seemed to be bearing most of the weight of the thing, so that my hands were quite stiff & cramp-y after putting it down.

 

Is this something you just get used to (in which case I'm really not sure...) or was I holding it wrong?

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I almost always play EC while sitting, with the weight of the instrument carried by my knee. The pinkie rests are mostly for locating your hand, not for bearing weight - sometimes you might not even be using them as you reach for those low notes. In summary: no problems! :D

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I'd expect the weight of the EC to be carried by the thumbs rather than the little fingers - not least because as you progress as an EC player, you'll find that the little finger starts to want to wander out of the rests and get involved in playing the odd note on the bottom row ....

 

I nearly always play either sitting down, or standing with my left foot on a chair or stool, with the concertina on my left thigh (some people go for the right thigh) in pretty much all cases.

 

If you're bending your hand back too far to be comfortable, try putting your thumbs less far into the thumb straps. As I'm not completely weight-bearing on the thumbs I find it quite comfortable to put the thumbs not too much further into the strap than the bottom of the thumbnail - but I do see some perfectly good players who have the the thumb-strap below the first knuckle though!

 

And don't forget that there is a fair amount of muscular adjustment going on as you get used to the position any new instrument puts you in. I had various minor hand aches and pains as I got used to the EC, and (without knowing anything about your medical history, age etc) I strongly suspect that it will pass - but then again I also play flute, and I still remember learning the cramped-up right-hand position on the flute as being far more uncomfortable than anything I experienced whilst first learning EC!

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In addition to sitting and resting the concertina on your knee, don't forget that the thumb straps are adjustable. There are varied opinions about how tight or loose the straps should be, and how far you should insert your thumb (you'll work this out by yourself or with a teacher) but you don't need to keep the straps at the "factory setting."

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This all sounds good!

 

Any thoughts on the actual box I was playing...

"Made in China"...; the overall quality of these boxes has been discussed elsewhere on CNet.

 

From the pic it looks quite large and will be heavier than other boxes then. This might have increased your "problem". Perhaps you should go for a "tutor" model Lachenal instead, which you may very well be able to buy at a similar price.

 

 

I myself had gotten familiar with playing the EC whilst sitting prior to having one, but here is the guy :) who straightly convinced me of the feasibility of holding the instrument between my two hands:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBuM8yGg2nw

 

 

I find it suitable rotating the 'tina towards the tumbs a bit to shift its weight thereby.

 

 

don't forget that the thumb straps are adjustable.

This is very good advice anyway. Go on with it! :)

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I hold mine with the straps rather loose, and my thumbs through to the first joint. It's tilted from the horizontal up about 20 to 30 degrees. Most of the weight is on my thumbs and my pinky moves around as more of a help in moving to reach the notes, both low and high.

 

I usually play with three fingers, with the index finger taking the fourth row also.

 

Thanks

Leo

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Mmm, gracenotes! That Guy is good. (I notice in his comments someone asks him if it doesn't strain his thumbs playing that way, & he says a lot of the weight is borne by his little fingers - ! But I guess it's horses for courses.)

 

 

"Made in China"...; the overall quality of these boxes has been discussed elsewhere on CNet.

 

What interested me was the apparent difference in build quality between two different Scarlatti concertinas - this second-hand box and a new Scarlatti (small, black, 30 keys) which they were selling for a similar price. The basics are going to be much the same, but is that a known difference - the 'really not very good' Scarlatti and the 'just about bearable'? Or does the varnished wood just look prettier?

Edited by PhilEdwards
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Or does the varnished wood just look prettier?

That would be my first guess indeed (but it will sound prettier as well then..., just because of the "look").

 

Again, why not go for one of the cheaper vintage ECs? I am very happy with mine (which ain't a cheap one admittedly).

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Following suggestions on the 'Absolute beginner' thread, I finally held an English concertina in my hands today courtesy of the nice man at Hobgoblin; it was a 48-key wooden-ended Scarlatti, nothing special but nicer build quality than the 30-key total-entry-level box they also had (plus, more keys).

 

As recommended on the other thread, I noodled around on it, mainly by hitting a couple of buttons on the middle two rows on one side & seeing what came out; I got quite a nice New Age-y chord sequence going, which felt pretty good for a first attempt. (I didn't try singing - small shop & no other customers!)

 

I'm just not convinced I was holding it right - or rather, if I *was* holding it right, I'm not convinced me and the EC are going to get on. I got my thumbs through the loops & put my little fingers in the little-finger-stirrup-things, but in that position I found it really difficult to bend my fingers back down to the lower notes. Not only that, but my little fingers seemed to be bearing most of the weight of the thing, so that my hands were quite stiff & cramp-y after putting it down.

 

Is this something you just get used to (in which case I'm really not sure...) or was I holding it wrong?

 

Be bold Phil. Follow your dream. Buy the instrument if you can find the money and get it home where you will have unlimited time to become fully acquainted with its idiosyncrasies and possibilities and have no end of fun in the process.

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So if (say for example) I had the choice of a nice-looking second-hand 48-key Scarlatti for a couple of hundred quid, or saving up another hundred for a new 30-key Jackie...

 

To save time, does anyone think I should go for the Scarlatti?

Edited by PhilEdwards
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Any thoughts on the actual box I was playing, which is not a million miles away from this one? (Not sure it was that one, but definitely Scarlatti, 48 keys, varnished wood (veneer?).)

Hard to be sure from the photo, but it looks to me as if both the thumb loop and the finger plate are not placed quite as far forward as is standard (on Wheatstones and Lachenals, e.g.). I don't think that should make it difficult to reach the lower notes, though. However, it also looks to me as if both the thumb loop and finger plate are placed slightly farther from the buttons than is standard. If what I think I see is really the case, that would reduce your hand's flexibility, which could make it more difficult to reach both the lowest and the highest notes. It could also put added stress on your fingers and/or thumbs.

 

I am a person who deliberately uses my little fingers to help hold the concertina, and I generally hold it suspended, not resting on my leg. (I do this even with my big bass English concertinas.) When I was first starting out, my little fingers did get tired and their muscles ached, but not after just a few minutes of playing. (And I didn't experience pain in my thumbs, as some others report. But that's another topic.) But after a month or two of frequent practice, resting when my little fingers began to hurt, the fingers got stronger and the pain disappeared. On most people, the little fingers are significantly weaker than the others, but they can be strengthened.

 

One comment about the way I hold the (English) concertina: I gently grip with both my thumb and little finger to hold the instrument, and I only insert the first joint of my thumb into the loop, which I have tight enough that the rest of my finger can't be inserted. By not jamming my thumb in up to the hilt, the length and flexibility of two thumbs joints make it easier for me to reach both higher and lower notes.

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Personally, I like to keep the thumb straps fairly loose. I'm free to move my thumbs forward or backward a bit as the music requires. On tunes played in the high octave my thumbs move farther into the straps, on mostly lower octaves the instrument is hanging by my thumbnails. IMHO, tight thumb straps inhibit hand movement and constrict your playing.

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Personally, I like to keep the thumb straps fairly loose. I'm free to move my thumbs forward or backward a bit as the music requires. On tunes played in the high octave my thumbs move farther into the straps, on mostly lower octaves the instrument is hanging by my thumbnails. IMHO, tight thumb straps inhibit hand movement and constrict your playing.

Quite a few different methods, it seems, and personal rationales for each one. :)

 

I have my preferences and reasons, but my consistent advice to others is to try the different methods and find what works best for yourself. And don't stop there, but periodically repeat the process, since experience and exercise could change things enough to alter your "best" choice.

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