Muffled notes on G row of Anglo

[michael sam wild]

In the Teaching and Learning Forum I have asked a question in the thread 'How do people play the Anglo?' about the fact that the buttons on the G row get muffled by the palm of the hand. I'd be glad to hear of any scientific metering tests.

 

As I said, my hearing test revelaed good acuity for both ears at the age of 71 .! Wish the memory and the fingers were as good

[david_boveri]

In the Teaching and Learning Forum I have asked a question in the thread 'How do people play the Anglo?' about the fact that the buttons on the G row get muffled by the palm of the hand. I'd be glad to hear of any scientific metering tests.

 

As I said, my hearing test revelaed good acuity for both ears at the age of 71 .! Wish the memory and the fingers were as good

 

The notes are muffled note only because of the hand, but also because of the palm rest itself. You can, however, use he palm to shape the tone on the notes because of the muffling you mention!

[Chris Ghent]

I find it interesting this effect is considerably more noticeable to the person playing the instrument that it is to a person a few steps away. Also it is seldom reported as an issue with right hand notes, presumably because there are few direct comparisons to be made.

 

It is inevitable the notes coming from under the hand will be different to those which don't and I always say to people, (much as David is) don't push against it, find a way to use it...

 

Chris

[Geoff Wooff]

I also noticed this problem on small sized EC's, that the lowest notes can sound muffled. I have much improved this by making sure that the Pad lifts well clear of the note hole. This either involes bending the action arms (which was not possible for my little instrument because the buttons were nearly as high as they could go with out the location pegs coming clear of their holes) or removing one of the felt washers (dampers) on the location peg at the base of each button.

 

This made such an improvement to the volume and tone of the lowest notes that I went through the whole instrument and removed one damper from every button.... now the whole thing can be made to roar !

 

I agree with Chris that the muffling can be less apparent to the audience or other players in a group or session. At a recent festival session,when the musicians were packed tight together, I noticed how powerfull these low notes were as they reflected off the players on either side of me.

 

This hand damping is, of course, not so noticable on concertinas that are larger than the normal size.

[michael sam wild]

Good advice ,it just shows how you can take stuff for granted. I experimented last night with the suggestion by David. I use the hands to bend notes on the harmonica but hadn't really thought of it on the concertina. Of course the RHS hasn't got that advantage! So an apparent limitation becomes a positive . Lateral thinking chaps

[Geoffrey Crabb]

I find it interesting this effect is considerably more noticeable to the person playing the instrument that it is to a person a few steps away. Also it is seldom reported as an issue with right hand notes, presumably because there are few direct comparisons to be made.

 

It is inevitable the notes coming from under the hand will be different to those which don't and I always say to people, (much as David is) don't push against it, find a way to use it...

 

Chris

 

Not wishing to attract a whole raft of technical enquiries or discussion.....

I agree with Chris here.

It has always been a recurring 'complaint' that some notes seem muffled to the 'player'. This can be due to various reasons, a couple of which may be:

 

The position of the reeds on the reed pan and hence the position of the pads in relation to the hands/hand rest.

The actual angles of the reflective surfaces of the inner sides of the endbox in relation to the player.

 

In practice however, as Chris says, the effect is not apparently noticeable to an audience. My advice, if experiencing the condition is to listen at a distance whilst another plays the instrument. Alternatively play the instrument and record at a distance. The results should indicate if there is an actual problem.

 

 

I also noticed this problem on small sized EC's, that the lowest notes can sound muffled. I have much improved this by making sure that the Pad lifts well clear of the note hole. This either involes bending the action arms (which was not possible for my little instrument because the buttons were nearly as high as they could go with out the location pegs coming clear of their holes) or removing one of the felt washers (dampers) on the location peg at the base of each button.

 

This made such an improvement to the volume and tone of the lowest notes that I went through the whole instrument and removed one damper from every button.... now the whole thing can be made to roar !

 

This hand damping is, of course, not so noticable on concertinas that are larger than the normal size.

 

The size of the pad holes and the extent of lift of the pads must be sufficient to allow enough air to pass through a reed for ultimate performance. In Duets and English concertinas this should not be a problem. However, the disparity of size/note value between some pairs of reeds associated with certain buttons on the Anglo may require some compromise in pad hole size to attain a 'best' balance. Past Anglo makers employing parrallel chambers were usually limited to using only two sizes of pad hole due to the difficulty in accommodating the pads within the width of the standard size instrument.

 

With English, Duet and in some Anglo concertinas employing radial reed arrangements it is not uncommon to use more relevent sized pad holes and three, four or more sizes may be used depending on the range of the instrument.

 

Adjustment to old instruments to meet a preference for short button travel often results in a mismatch between original designed pad lift and pad hole size resulting in reduced airflow which can affect the performance and ultimate volume of the reeds.

 

In Geoffs case, additional key pin washers may have been added at some time to reduce button travel.

 

 

Geoff

[Anglo-Irishman]

In practice however, as Chris says, the effect is not apparently noticeable to an audience. My advice, if experiencing the condition is to listen at a distance whilst another plays the instrument. Alternatively play the instrument and record at a distance. The results should indicate if there is an actual problem.

Interesting!

 

I have this poblem with the high G on the RHS of my Lachenal Crane. The tone (in both bellows directions) is not actually muffled, but it is smoother, with less of an edge on it, than the surrounding notes, and doesn't stand out so well against the bass. I've tried various tricks, including reducing the volume of the reed chamber, increasing the pad lift, and making sure that the reeds are well seated, but to no avail.

 

However, when I recorded a tune arrangement in which the high G is prominent, and always annoyed me by its inconspicuousness, it sounded quite all right in the recording.

It still sounds weak to me when I'm playing, but now I just don't worry about it any more.

 

Cheers,

John

[michael sam wild]

As I said , the problem for me was hearing what I am playing on the LHS, even though it transpires my hearing is equally OK on both sides. I will put the volume to test at the next session but may have to train my ear to pick up the notes from the inner LHS. It's OK at home or solo or as a duet with my guitarist pal in a playing situation but throws me in a session..

[Geoffrey Crabb]

As I said , the problem for me was hearing what I am playing on the LHS, even though it transpires my hearing is equally OK on both sides. I will put the volume to test at the next session but may have to train my ear to pick up the notes from the inner LHS. It's OK at home or solo or as a duet with my guitarist pal in a playing situation but throws me in a session..

 

 

Don't worry Mike, I expect everybody else in a session has a similar experience, to some degree, hearing themselves.

 

Geoff

[michael sam wild]

Thanks Geofff, I do often sit between two pipers. Or as I always seem to end up saying I fall between two stools! Or end up in a 'nest of pipers'. The old jokes are the same old jokes! It's a wonder we keep our friends.

 

I never seem to heare concertina jokes. Maybe they know our fragile egos can't take it.

Edited September 11, 2011 by michael sam wild