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Hi all,

Just wondering how common are Anglo concertinas in B/F# pitch? Particulary Jeffries? For my own curiosity I said I'd ask the experts here!! Thanks

 

Hi there FR and welcome. In 30 years of concertina interest, I have never heard of a B/F#. Bb/F Jefferies are rare but around. Singers like them. Some makers will take orders for a new instrument in any key you like.

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Hi all,

Just wondering how common are Anglo concertinas in B/F# pitch? Particulary Jeffries? For my own curiosity I said I'd ask the experts here!! Thanks

 

Geoff Crabb recently mentioned in another topic that B/F# was the most common Crabb Anglo around 1890-95. Since this seemed very surprising to me I have presented the hypothesis that they actually were meant to be used as Bb/F instruments IF being in Old Philharmonic pitch which was quite common with concertinas up to late 1920s. Old Philharmonic pitch is a=452,5 which means that such a B/F# instrument is 50 cent high compared to a Bb/F one in a=440 ( or rather 439 = "New Philharmonic pitch").

The reason for my guess is that who would really use a B/F# Anglo as such and for what purpose? I don't know any popular instrument having either B or F# as natural keys and these keys are not choosen for much written music either.

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Hi all,

Just wondering how common are Anglo concertinas in B/F# pitch? Particulary Jeffries? For my own curiosity I said I'd ask the experts here!! Thanks

 

Geoff Crabb recently mentioned in another topic that B/F# was the most common Crabb Anglo around 1890-95. Since this seemed very surprising to me I have presented the hypothesis that they actually were meant to be used as Bb/F instruments IF being in Old Philharmonic pitch which was quite common with concertinas up to late 1920s. Old Philharmonic pitch is a=452,5 which means that such a B/F# instrument is 50 cent high compared to a Bb/F one in a=440 ( or rather 439 = "New Philharmonic pitch").

The reason for my guess is that who would really use a B/F# Anglo as such and for what purpose? I don't know any popular instrument having either B or F# as natural keys and these keys are not choosen for much written music either.

 

My brother is a clarinet player and collector. He owns a vintage "taragot" (a sort of wooden saxophone popular in Hungary) which is in the key of B.

He was very puzzled about this tunings since these instruments are normally in Bflat.

Maybe it could also have been originally a "Bflat high pitch", subsequently retuned to "B modern pitch" ; just as in your hypothesis.

However I'm not sure if his instrument is stamped "Bb" or "B". I'll ask him about this.

Edited by david fabre
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However I'm not sure if his instrument is stamped "Bb" or "B". I'll ask him about this.

 

If stamped "B" that would be inconclusive because in Germany and possibly other European countries "B" is used to denote what we call Bflat. "H" is used to denote what we would call "B".

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If stamped "B" that would be inconclusive because in Germany and possibly other European countries "B" is used to denote what we call Bflat. "H" is used to denote what we would call "B".

From Hungary, I would be confident that B meant what we call B-flat. The B/H system was used in the Austro-Hungarian empire, and persists in that region. So, for example, that is what my Czech wife knows.

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If stamped "B" that would be inconclusive because in Germany and possibly other European countries "B" is used to denote what we call Bflat. "H" is used to denote what we would call "B".

From Hungary, I would be confident that B meant what we call B-flat. The B/H system was used in the Austro-Hungarian empire, and persists in that region. So, for example, that is what my Czech wife knows.

 

Thanks for clarifying that Ivan. I only know of the B/H system from dealing with German melodeons.

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Watch this video :

 

 

Some time ago we've had a discussion about the tuning of the instrument noel hill is using here, which led to the conclusion that it is most likely a B/F# !

 

See there : http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10670&view=findpost&p=107253

 

thanks for posting the video~! i was just going to mention it. it is a great key for an instrument, indeed.

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hmmm. i believe i was told that the irish concertina wizard tim collins had ordered a "B" concertina from colin dipper to play in "B" piper keys. would this be a B/F#?

 

Doubtful. Tim has referred (in private correspondence) to a C#/G# concertina as an "E flat" concertina -- because it's well-suited to playing in E flat and related keys. And as you probably know, some people refer to the standard C/G as a "D concertina" for short.

 

So-called "flat" pipe sets, as opposed to standard pipe sets in D, can be in C#, C, B, or Bb, according to Wikipedia. I suspect that C and Bb sets are the most common after D, but surely someone here knows more about their relative frequencies than me. To play with a B set, an A/E concertina would be ideal; for playing with a Bb set, the best choice would be an Ab/Eb concertina.

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