Advice Needed

[hausfrau]

Wow, there is so much information on this forum my head just spins!

I am searching out what I can on concertinas, as I would like to learn to play. I grew up listening to concertina/accordian music - my german grandfather played. I remember (and my father still has) his instrument, but I know nothing about these facinating music boxes!

 

I myself am interested in starting on a small Anglo concertina and would like to learn german folk tunes. My opa (grandpa-for any non-german speakers out there) played by ear and I was too young to recall now any of the names of tunes, but I am learning that they are very common tunes such as (in english) 'Cornflower Blue' and 'Beautiful Rhine' So for my first question...is this the right instrument to be looking at for such music?

 

I am a flute & whistle player for many years now, which brings my second question to mind...will I be able to play irish tunes easily on the same instrument that I would german style folk music or will I be looking at the other style where the same note is played on the push as the pull? (I've learned only a little bit from your forum on the difference - never knew there were so many types!)

 

My opa played a button accordian, so for my third and last question...is the concertina a good place to start for learning to play later his instrument? Being a wind instrument player I am used to playing one note at a time, will I be able to play melody and chords at the same time?

 

I am looking forward to any thoughts you all have...

 

Veronica

[Samantha]

Here are a few random answers to your questions:

Let me be the first of many in this forum to say that nothing beats trying out the different concertina systems and finding out what suits *you* best.

Many people declare the anglo concertina *the* instrument for playing Irish style tunes, but many others (on this forum and elsewhere) play Irish formidably well on the English system.

"The button accordion" is a very broad term (as is "concertina"), so without knowing more about your opa's instrument I can't advise you whether learning the concertina will help you with his instrument. Why not pick up *his* instrument and play *that*, if that's what you're aiming for?

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best in your music making!

Samantha

[hausfrau]

Thank you Samantha for the quick reply...May I ask another question of you?

Do the Anglo and the English have different fingering systems within each of the types? I mean, if I learn one type of Anglo, and choose to try another Anglo instrument, will they be the same or just similar?

 

Veronica

[Samantha]

I play anglo myself, so will leave an English player to answer regarding the English system.

Anglos are similar to each other. The basic two rows (i.e. what you'd get on a 20 button anglo) are likely to be the same on most instruments, but there are variations for the third row. Broadly speaking, the third row will be either a Wheatstone or a Jeffries layout ... or something else entirely! I think somewhere on this site Ken Coles has done an article about selecting the notes for the third row of an anglo if you are commissioning one from scratch ...

I expect this answer is very confusing, but there it is!

[JimLucas]

Do the Anglo and the English have different fingering systems within each of the types?  I mean, if I learn one type of Anglo, and choose to try another Anglo instrument, will they be the same or just similar?

For the anglo, Samantha has given a pretty good answer., except for one thing. Anglos come in different "keys", where the basic 2-row pattern she described comprises two keys a musical 5th apart, but which two varies. C/G is the most common, with G/D a very popular second, at least in England and America, and to some extent in Ireland. 100 or so years ago, Bb/F was popular, and you might still find some in that key, while old German-made ones may be in F/C.

 

All the tutor materials I know of are for the C/G. Whatever you learn for that will also work on the G/D, etc., but the music will come out in a different key.

 

Broadly speaking, the third row will be either a Wheatstone or a Jeffries layout ... or something else entirely!

Yep. I've had more than one of those "something else entirelies".

 

As for the English, the basic pattern is quite consistent through all octaves, and "never" changes.

... What never? .... Well, hardly ever!

 

The basic treble English has 48 buttons and a 3½-octave range. Many instruments extend that range either upward or downward, but the underlying pattern remains the same. And some "beginner" instruments or "miniatures" with fewer buttons leave out some of the accidentals, but without moving around any of the remaining notes. Some instruments will sound an octave higher or an octave or two lower for the same fingering. And some individuals have made custom changes to one or two notes (I don't think I've ever seen more), usually to give a desired extra note at the bottom of the range.

 

Finally, while the English is fully chromatic, its note layout is centered on the key of C. SomeEnglishes were made as transposing instruments -- like a Bb trumpet , -- but they are very rare, and I think most of those are in Bb. That's useful for playing brass band parts as written, and I've heard of instruments in F and Eb, which would be good for the same purpose. As for other keys, out of more than 100 thousand that were made, I only know of one in the key of A.

[hausfrau]

Thanks to both for your answers - the mystery of this instrument is becoming more clear...

 

Your answers prompt another question...

Do these instruments have the capability of playing chord as well as melody lines? Can one do both simultaniously?

 

Thank you all for being so patient with me and my basic knowledge questions

 

Veronica

[Daniel Bradbury]

Yes Veronica,

 

Chords and melody can be played at the same time on an anglo. In fact one of the members of Concertina.net has produced a really lovely introductory tutor that can be downloaded. Alan Day is the member to contact in this regards.

 

For serious chordal work you will need at least a 30 button instrument. Anglos were often built with 38 or more buttons which allowed for a wider range of chordal possibilities.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of concertinas. But beware, they are alleged to be quite addictive. I gotta go now and have my fix .

[JimLucas]

Do these instruments have the capability of playing chord as well as melody lines?

Not without your help.

Can one do both simultaniously?

Englishes and anglos are both capable of all you've suggested, though maybe not everything you have in mind. E.g., vamping chords against a melody is something most folks consider impossible, though both sparse chording against a melody line and rich arrangements are standard fare. Meanwhile, on the anglo it's easy to vamp chords in one hand (usually the left) while playing melody in the other, but only in some keys. And some chords just aren't possible, because they require both push and pull notes at the same time.

[hausfrau]

Thank you Daniel, I feel very welcome already!

 

Oh, and Jim, you have dashed all my hopes...I was hoping for one that plays itself...I guess I will have to put some work into it, yes?

Seriously now, your information is most helpful - and exactly what I expected to hear. I am now looking forward to trying out a few boxes to see what comes next. While it may not be the instrument I would choose, there is a Baldoni dealer right here in my small town. I can get some 'hands on' there. Better place than any to start I suppose...

 

Veronica

[JimLucas]

Englishes and anglos are both capable of all you've suggested,...

But I neglected to mention duets. Have you considered a duet concertina?

There are significant differences between the duet systems, but similar consistency within each. At least in theory can separate bass/chord and melody into the two hands, but with all notes in both directions can play any chord.

...Ah, but you say you've already started on anglo.

[John Nixon]

Hello Friend,

Whilst there is no doubt that you can obtain the best comparison between the various types of Concertina by handling them all ( on the same day ?) this is most impractical. So the next best facility is a sight of good clear charts to show each type.

There have been some indications of Anglo & Duet key(button) layouts but I cannot remember seeing (on this Forum) a clear layout of the standard English Keyboard showing the relationship between the layout and the written music.

Perhaps this would be a good time to provide clear layouts of each type for all newcomers to view . This would answer the frequent questions from newcomers to concertina.net. Over to you Ken. JOHN NIXON.

[hausfrau]

Good morning friends!

 

Jim, I haven't started playing on any instrument yet (sad, but true) The only thing close to a concertina I have even touched, is my opa's old button accordian - and that was as a young child - I wont yet give away how long ago that was Let's just say 'old dog, new tricks'...

 

Na ja, I like the idea you have given John. I have gleaned much from everyones advice - I know so much more now than I did a few days ago just wading through my own research, but it would make even more sense to my brain to see what the differences are side by side in such a chart form. Especially when laid against the music. This instrument is so different than the flute I was trained from little on to play that it is taking me a little longer to understand some of the mechanics.

 

I am very happy to have found this site and forum - the information here has been the most clear and helpful and I cant but thank you all for being generous in sharing it!

 

Veronica