So... Saw !

[david fabre]

So... I recently figured out that my favorite woodwork tool could be used as a musical instrument !

I just purchased a bow and began experimenting...

I quickly realised that my present saw from the closest DIY shop cannot sing more than five or six note,

so I'm considering getting (or making ?) a more musically dedicated one. Some models are said to have more

than three octaves (for instance this one :

)

 

Internet sites on the subject either state that it is very easy to play, or that it is very difficult...

I'm beginning to think that it is quite easy to produce a note but quite difficult to play in tune

 

So... are there other folks here who have tried ? (and survived ?)

Any advice ?

[Jody Kruskal]

So... I recently figured out that my favorite woodwork tool could be used as a musical instrument !

I just purchased a bow and began experimenting...

I quickly realised that my present saw from the closest DIY shop cannot sing more than five or six note,

so I'm considering getting (or making ?) a more musically dedicated one. Some models are said to have more

than three octaves (for instance this one :

)

 

Internet sites on the subject either state that it is very easy to play, or that it is very difficult...

I'm beginning to think that it is quite easy to produce a note but quite difficult to play in tune

 

So... are there other folks here who have tried ? (and survived ?)

Any advice ?

 

I went to this a few years ago. The 9th annual NYC Musical Saw Festival

Saturday, July 16th, 2011 in Astoria, Queens

Details: http://musicalsawfestival.org/

[Leo]

..................

I'm beginning to think that it is quite easy to produce a note but quite difficult to play in tune

 

So... are there other folks here who have tried ? (and survived ?)

Any advice ?

Hi David

 

Way way back, when I found out mom and dad weren't going to support me anymore, and I had to learn how to work, I worked with a bunch of old guys around the age of my grandfather. Most of them could tap out at least the chorus of a recognizable tune on their handsaw.

 

They would place the fingers of their right hand down through the wooden handle, and hold the tip of the saw in their left hand. The teeth of the saw were pointed away from the body. They put tension and bent the saw into a slight "S" shape and tapped away with their right thumb. It was kind of neat to try. All I could do was make a couple of pitch changing noises rather easily. Nothing like those "old guys". They were good at it and playing together too. The best sounds came from the older thinner saws. The newer ones were too thick to bend easily or make it sound pleasant.

 

It was nothing like the newer YouTube types playing with a bow either, but it was fun trying to keep up with them. They tolerated me.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Anglo-Irishman]

So... I recently figured out that my favorite woodwork tool could be used as a musical instrument !

I just purchased a bow and began experimenting...

I quickly realised that my present saw from the closest DIY shop cannot sing more than five or six note,

so I'm considering getting (or making ?) a more musically dedicated one. Some models are said to have more

than three octaves (for instance this one :

)

 

Internet sites on the subject either state that it is very easy to play, or that it is very difficult...

I'm beginning to think that it is quite easy to produce a note but quite difficult to play in tune

 

So... are there other folks here who have tried ? (and survived ?)

Any advice ?

 

David,

You've just awakened one of my favourite childhood memories!

 

When I was about 5 or 6 years old, my parents would go up to Belfast in December for the Christmas shopping. Leaving my mother in a department store, my father and I would go in search of "the wee man with the saw", who was more or less a fixture of Donegal Street around 1950. He sat on a camp stool with a big saw clamped between his knees, and made the most beautiful music, which made him easy to find.

 

What he played was a rather long carpenter's saw, and he played it with a violin bow. He clamped the handle between his knees or thighs, with the teeth towards him, the tip of the blade to his left; the fingers of his left hand were hooked under the tip, and the thumb was on top, as far from the tip as he could reach. With this grip, he formed a flat S-cuve in the blade, and he held the bow vertical, gripping it at the top. He varied the degree of bend to modulate the tone. His strong vibrato came from the right leg: the left foot was slightly forward, but the right foot was slightly back, and resting on the ball of the foot, so that he could "jiggle" his knee up and down, generating a pitch-vibrato.

I can still remember the pure clarity of the sound - almost like a really good whistler, but louder, fuller, and with that vibrato.

 

Much later, I tried it myself. My saw (bought for carpentry work, not for music!) has a 50 cm blade, which is long enough to give a clear, modulated tone. Playing the saw is both simple and difficult, as the websites say. With the handle loosely clamped between the thighs and the proper grip to make the S-bend, it's easy to produce notes by bowing or tapping the blade. Getting the intonation right is the difficult bit. If you haven't got a good ear, forget it! It's more difficult than on the violin. The vibrato is essential to help you cover up the flaws in intonation. In the course of one oscillation of the vibrato, you have to find the degree of bend and tension that the note calls for. As with all music, practice makes (more or less) perfect.

 

Then, some years ago, a fellow-musician inherited his father's instruments: a zither, two violins and - a musical saw! This was a real saw, with a normal handle and teeth, but a considerably longer blade than normal. I only handled it once, and it could be that the blade was thinner than normal - however, this impression may be subjective, and relative to the length of the blade. This saw was obviously intended as a musical saw - the teeth were blunt, and not set -and came in a gig-bag, or rather gig-sheath.

 

So if you're serious about the saw, either look for a specifically musical saw, or obtain the longest normal saw that you can. My 50 cm saw sounds quite nice, but has a limited range of pitch. It seems that, in this case at least, size does matter ...

 

Have fun!

Cheers,

John

[Alan Day]

I still have My Grandfathers Musical saw.I too can remember him playing it.

The one I have is much larger in length than ones which are sold now in hardware shops and has a very broad blade.

He was a lovely man I miss him dearly.

Al

[JimLucas]

So... I recently figured out that my favorite woodwork tool could be used as a musical instrument !

I just purchased a bow and began experimenting...

I quickly realised that my present saw from the closest DIY shop cannot sing more than five or six note,

so I'm considering getting (or making ?) a more musically dedicated one. Some models are said to have more

than three octaves (for instance this one :

)

 

Internet sites on the subject either state that it is very easy to play, or that it is very difficult...

I'm beginning to think that it is quite easy to produce a note but quite difficult to play in tune

 

So... are there other folks here who have tried ? (and survived ?)

I have tried, though for only a few minutes. My conclusion was that I could learn to play, but it would take some real practice, and for that I would need a good saw of my own... plus significant spare time that I'm currently lacking.

 

More to the point, I have two friends who play. One has been playing for quite a few years and the other took it up less than two years ago. I've learned a few things from them.

• It seems that the best saws for carpentry (at least by today's standards) are not the best saws for playing music. Some saws are made specifically for playing. At least in Europe, the Sandviken Stradivarius has the highest reputation.
  
• Friend Jan, who is learning to play, had an old Sandviken Strad, and both he and I had trouble with it. But it was smaller than the one Carl Henning plays. So Jan purchased a new, larger (longer) Sandviken Strad, and he found it much easier to play. (So did I, though I only tried briefly.) He has since made significant progress.
  
• Carl Henning plays with a bow, and so of course does Jan. (We were all in a shanty group together, and CH played along on one of the forebitters when we performed. Since he left the group, J has been practicing some of the same.) As far as I know, bowing is the "standard" style in Scandinavia. There's an older fellow in Bergs Kommun in Sweden (where I'm visiting at the moment) who sometimes sits in the audience and plays along on the saw with the approval of certain local performers. He also uses the bow. And back in the US I knew a mandolin player who also played saw, and he also used a bow.
  
• It may be that hammering the saw to produce the sound is an "older" style. That's likely, because it doesn't need additional tools, only the saw and something to strike it with. I've seen it played that way using a small hammer to strike the saw. I presume that the result was louder than using a thumb, as described by Leo. But the technique of using the bow seems to be at least a couple of hundred years old, if I'm to believe old lumber-camp tales.
  
• All the playing I've heard on the musical saw has been at moderate speed, about as one might expect for a waltz or accompanying a ballad. I've never heard anyone try to play quick dance tunes -- jigs, reels, polkas -- on the saw. I won't say that it can't be done, though.
  

[david fabre]

Glad to get so much feedback. Thanks to all for sharing memories, experience and advice !

I also experimented with both a bow and a hammer. Hitting is easier (indeed online tutorials recommend starting with a hammer)

but less sonorous.

 

At least in Europe, the Sandviken Stradivarius has the highest reputation.

 

Here in France opinions seem to be unanimous about the "sonorous blades" made by Alexis Fauconnez (http://www.sciemusicale.fr)

The "sonorous blade" (lame sonore) is an improved version of the musical saw, according to a patent from 1946.

The improvements include : no teeth, an optimised shape and type of steel, a larger handle, and an inflection lever.

Jean-Claude Welche (see the youtube link I indicated) plays this model.

As for me : my father-in-law has a business in metallurgy, so I'm considering ordering a blade to him and building a handle and tip lever.

 

I've never heard anyone try to play quick dance tunes -- jigs, reels, polkas -- on the saw. I won't say that it can't be done, though.

 

I think the problem is that it is almost impossible to detach the notes. So a reel or jig should sound like a continuous and indistinct glissando.

 

Anyway for the for the moment I sound about like this :

My wife is a bit nervous.... If I insist she may even reclaim the concertina !

Edited July 8, 2011 by david fabre

[david fabre]

For those interested in the mathematics of the saw :

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~jw12/JW%20PDFs/Saw.pdf

 

(warning : this is very technical, and mostly reserved to those with a PhD in physics or mathematics)

[Leo]

 

.....

I've never heard anyone try to play quick dance tunes -- jigs, reels, polkas -- on the saw. I won't say that it can't be done, though.

 

I think the problem is that it is almost impossible to detach the notes. So a reel or jig should sound like a continuous and indistinct glissando.

 

 

Oh, I don't know about that. I'm going back almost 40 years in memory. Those old guys could get going pretty good. It's speculation on my part how they did it, but I suspect it's something along the lines of bending and unbending, along with the thumb taps quickly and together and well practiced. They didn't use a hammer or anything else to strike it, nor was a bow used. Nobody could afford it. It sounded pretty good and the "notes" or "sounds" were pretty distinct. If I were to describe the sound, it would not be as sharp as something hard striking the metal, or as continuous as a bow moving across, but something more like a muted type sound and held as long as the saw was bent.

 

It looks like it's partially described in the PDF David mentioned, where it describes holding the saw in both hands.

 

I'm not advocating any particular technique, I'm just passing along an anecdotal experience.

 

Either way, it sound cool to try it.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Robert Booth]

At our local old time session we have two saw players. Both use bows and both are able to keep up with fairly sprightly tunes; they seem to go for bass lines and harmonics when the tempo gets too fast for the instrument to sound crisp and clear.

 

I have to say that the sound of those saws took some getting used to. The swooping, glasslike glissandos were a little off-putting at first, buried in the fiddles, mandolins, guitars and standup bass. Ah, well, I suppose that the PA's and Button boxes and my valiant little Anglo probably took some patience too, until we worked into a clearer sound, over time.

 

At any rate, we're all having a great time together, and that's the most important part. At times sublime moments occur, like an unexpected blessing.

Cheers,

RB