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McCann, Macann, or Maccann?


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' Trimming ' . Have been wondering what this word might have implied. Perhaps playing brief excerpts of popular tunes compounded into a continuous uninterrupted medley which could have been terminated at short notice as circumstances demanded. Music by the yard ! In my young days quite a lot of light music was broadcast in this manner over the radio. The pianist Charlie Kunz was just one of the masters of that style . ( I expect someone will know the true explanation. )

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At football grounds we have personalities. There’s the concertina expert and the purveyor of gingerbread from a tray that is tasteful and tricky in that its light gets the eye of everyone – the greatest gift in advertising.
To my admittedly American eyes, this quote talks about two different people, the concertina expert and the gingerbread seller.
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' Trimming ' . Have been wondering what this word might have implied.

 

Hmm. "Trimming" has (at least) two distinct meanings, and it's the other one that I assumed when I first read that, i.e., "decorating".

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Crane Driver wrote: Does the Liverpool Echo still have records of who wrote "Bee's Sports Notes" back in 1915? It would be wonderful if an archive of his notes survived, but I'm not holding my breath. A job for Myrtle's Cook, perhaps?

 

I'm onto it (but awaiting a reply to my call)! I have read back through a number of other 'Bee's Sports Notes' and they are often written in the same slightly exuberant and florid language. They provide quite a contrast to the detailed match reports. 'Bee' is often opinionated and sometimes there is a feeling of an 'in joke' being shared with his readership which is now quite lost on the contemporary reader. It has crossed my mind that JHM may have become in some way troublesome to Liverpool FC and its crowds, and perhaps, after several informal warnings, a witty sports journalist was asked to write a piece to help ensure he stayed away from the ground in future.

Edited by Myrtle's cook
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I suppose, assuming the 'obit' is genuine, that the Prof may have died elsewhere, perhaps on a holiday to the Isle of Man or Ireland, but most of the newspapers from there are available on line and I can't find him there either.

 

Mind you, my experience of such things is that the deaths of "ordinary" people (including forgotten music-hall artists) didn't generally start to get reported/advertised in newspapers until after the First World War, and gradually more so in the following years.

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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THE DEATH OF MINNIE MACCANN

 

In searching for a burial record for JHM amongst the burial registers and parish records of Liverpool I have also kept an eye open for additional details for these two parties.

 

Burial of Minnie MacCann

West Derby Cemetery

Burial no. 28175

March 4th 1908

Aged 47 years

Residence: Mill Road Infirmary

Rank or profession: ‘---‘ [just a line]

District of Everton

Mode of burial: single

Location: Section 2: grave 1793

Ceremony by Rev N H Harpur

(Liverpool Libraries reference: 283 West Derby 10/1/5)

 

Comments:

- West Derby Cemetery is one of a number of large municipal cemeteries laid out on the edge of the city of Liverpool in the 19th century as the city’s population began to exponentially increase.

- Mill Road Infirmary was part of the West Derby Union which oversaw the work houses and public hospitals until 1929 when the Local Government Act transferred these responsibilities to local authorities.

- Her grave is in a Church of England section and was a ‘free ground’ burials (as distinct from burials where the plot had been purchased). I visited the site on Saturday and located her plot, which is unmarked and sits between a number of other unmarked graves. A rather forlorn end for Minnie. I am not so sure she would be pleased to know that another concertina player was taking an interest in her(?)

- The Rev Harpur seems to have presided over the great majority of Anglican burials at this cemetery.

 

THE WEDDING OF JHM AND SARAH JANE KENNERLEY (much of this information is available on line and will have been seen by Crane Driver and others already)

The banns were read on 5th, 12th and 19th of April by Rev Cuffe, the incumbent of St Stephens (where they were to be married).

The Banns Record records John Henry McCann (widower) and Sarah Jane Kennerley (s)

Wedding 11:30 April 22nd. Note that it is John HENRY in the Banns.

(Liverpool Libraries ref: 283/GRO/3/3)

 

The Marriage records both JHM and Sarah as resident at 3 Minshull Str at the time of marriage.

The ceremony was not performed by the vicar of St Stephens who had read the banns (Rev Cuffe) but instead by Rev H R Parnell of St Marys, Edge Hill.

The record states that Sarah’s father was Thomas Kennerley, boiler maker (deceased). It also has the correction of Henry to Hillam for JHM mentioned previously in this discussion thread.

The witnesses are William Noble and Sarah Love.

(Liverpool libraries ref: 283/GRO/5/3)

 

Comments:

-The correction of JHM’s middle name on the marriage record would seem to be that of an error carried over from the banns.

- St Stephen’s was the closest Church of England church to Minshull Str (probably about 2 or 3 minute’s walk); St Mary’s, Edge Hill is only a fraction further away. ( see http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolaz/R7.htmtiles P7, R7, P6)

St Stephens seems to have been an unusually quiet church in terms of weddings, with only 9 in 1908, whilst there were 47 in the nearby St Marys, Edge Hill. Within the parish records for both churches there is no reason given for Rev Parnell presiding over ceremonies in place of Rev Cuffe (the Rev Cuffe presides over the Easter service the preceding Sunday and is back in the pulpit the Sunday following the wedding). Of the 9 weddings performed in 1908 Rev Cuffe presides over six, with Rev Parnell presiding over two others and another vicar the ninth. The various parish minute books etc of the period record a declining congregation and a church operating on a constant deficit.

 

Neither JHM or Sarah are listed amongst the Communicants of St Stephens in the earliest surviving register covering 1913-43 (Liverpool Library Reference 283 GRO/8/1), so this would seem to be a quiet church of convenience rather than the church to which they belonged (although accepting that much can happen over five years).

 

Turning to the witnesses, William Noble and the improbably named witness for a wedding ‘Sarah Love’. I did wonder if they might have been serial or ’professional’ witnesses, but their names do not appear as witnesses to any other weddings taking place in either St Stephens and St Mary’s in 1908.

 

On closer investigation it is most likely that this William Noble is a resident of the nearby and affluent Faulkner Square (no. 33) and whilst not a member of St Stephen’s congregation (he’s not in the in 1913 Communicants Register) he financially contributed to this church. In the various censuses, directories etc he is listed as a retired officer of private means (b.1839) and a former treasurer of the city’s harbour board (a position of some importance). How he might have come to know JHM (or Sarah) we can only guess – perhaps a pupil?

 

Following the speculation above concerning JHM’s relationship with alcohol in later life, I cannot resist raising the very outside possibility that the witnessing William Noble may have been an Evangelical preacher of that name spearheading a the ‘Blue Ribbon [temperance] Movement’ that was doing the rounds of English meeting halls and mission chapels at the time. Had JHM become a convert in his battle with the drink and perhaps provided William Noble with a sound track to his lectures and preaching? JHM records in an interview that he enjoyed playing spiritual music at services on long sea passages (http://www.concertina.com/maccann-duet/howtoplay/images/P08.htm). For the avoidance of doubt this suggestion is made with tongue firmly in cheek!

 

Turning to Sarah Love. We do not find her listed amongst St Stephen’s communicants in the churche’s 1913-43 Register so might assume her to be a friend of Sarah or JHM. There are a number of possibilities listed in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, amongst them: A Sarah Jane Love, aged 35 in 1911, a housekeeper in nearby 5 prospect Vale; Sarah Love, aged 48 in 1901 and resident in nearby 29 Sidney Place (apparently a housewife); Sarah Love, aged 23, Chandlers Assistant and head of household, resident at nearby Low Hill. If she were any of these three, then it implies that Sarah Kennerley is of a similar rather modest background.

 

The day of the wedding was a Wednesday, not unprecedented, although the local norm of the time would seem to have been Saturdays going from the parish registers. Perhaps earnings from a Saturday’s engagements were too important to be sacrificed for a musician – whether busking to football crowds or playing in pubs (and it might be noted that a significant number of pubs in the Liverpool city centre and outlying boroughs had concert rooms attached and presented bills similar to the larger music halls albeit with more modest line ups and a more bawdy clientele).

 

Overall one cannot but feel that there is an almost indecent haste with which JHM and Sarah are rushing to tie the knot, with Banns read only a month after Minnie’s burial. Ironically this proximity makes me think it increasingly likely that this Minnie is JHM’s second ‘wife’, and both he and Sarah had been impatiently waiting for her passing in order to get married. Barely a redeeming feature, but the wedding has the feel of a rather low key event.

Edited by Myrtle's cook
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THE DEATH OF MINNIE MACCANN

As a historian who has done a good bit of urban history, I'm enjoying this thread enormously, and greatly appreciating the quality of both the research and the speculation. (Well, excepting, perhaps, the alien abduction theory.)

 

But my inspiration for posting is to suggest that one of our members write a tune with the title quoted above.

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' Trimming '. My 1927 edition of The New GRESHAM DICTIONARY of the English Language offers a definition of trimmer as "one who fluctuates between parties, or tries to keep on good terms with both". What does this reveal about the professor....if anything ! We are told he had ' odd notions ' about trimming !

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THE DEATH OF MINNIE MACCANN

As a historian who has done a good bit of urban history, I'm enjoying this thread enormously, and greatly appreciating the quality of both the research and the speculation. (Well, excepting, perhaps, the alien abduction theory.)

 

But my inspiration for posting is to suggest that one of our members write a tune with the title quoted above.

 

Indeed! It does sound like a good title for a monologue at the very least.

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The Banns Record records John Henry McCann (widower) and Sarah Jane Kennerley (s)

Wedding 11:30 April 22nd. Note that it is John HENRY in the Banns.

(Liverpool Libraries ref: 283/GRO/3/3)

 

The Marriage record ... has the correction of Henry to Hillam for JHM mentioned previously in this discussion thread.

 

-The correction of JHM’s middle name on the marriage record would seem to be that of an error carried over from the banns.

 

Only he was John HILL Maccann, Hill being his mother's family name, it was William who had the confusion over Hill and Hillham/Hilliam, his paternal grandmother's (if I remember rightly) maiden name.

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That 1908 wedding record is nowhere near as ‘innocent’ as MC’s post might suggest:

 

The groom gives his name as John Henry Maccann, musician, age 47, son of John Hill Maccann, deceased, also musician

 

John Hill Maccann was born about 1860, hence would be about 48 in 1908. How could he have a son aged 47? Precocious or what?

 

The correction occurs in the groom’s own signature, and is the ‘wrong way round’ – he originally signed himself ‘John Hill Maccann’ and then corrected the ‘Hill’ to ‘Henry’

 

Who absent-mindedly signs his father’s name to the marriage register instead of his own? JHM is deliberately misleading the Registrar

 

JHM married Eliza Wood Passmore Reed in 1878, in Plymouth, before his musical career really took off. There is no record of the marriage being annulled

 

In the 1911 census, Eliza still considers herself to be married to JHM, though she presumably hasn’t seen him for years. She lived until 1914. Even with Minnie dead, JHM was not ‘free to marry’ in 1908 – not under his real name, anyway

 

post-1375-0-78844100-1435221665_thumb.jpg

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Fair comment Crane Driver, I was trying to stick to the facts and avoid rushing off in all directions of my own scatter brained interpretations/hypotheses. ...so here is one of them...

 

This deception does appear odd and perhaps unnecessary on the face of it - as everyone who might know JHM in Liverpool would have understood (wrongly) that he was married, in name as least, to the now deceased Minnie and thus free to remarry (if rather too hastily). JHM, his family and Eliza would certainly have known otherwise, but there is little I have seen to suggest that their circle extended to Liverpool. JHM also appears to have ceased his touring by this date and with it his national exposure. I did wonder whether the paranoia manifest when he was confined to Bethlem (Stephen Chamber's post 2 May 2015, above) never truly left and he feared he might be discovered through some process (cross checking of records?) and needed to take evasive action. Incidentally I have been looking for any evidence that he might have been admitted for care in Liverpool due to recurrence of his mental illness, but I have, to date, found no evidence.

 

The other possibility I considered, but dismissed, was that if speculation above concerning alcoholism is correct, then these might be the actions and errors of a barely 'functioning alcoholic'.

Edited by Myrtle's cook
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The groom gives his name as John Henry Maccann, musician, age 47, son of John Hill Maccann, deceased, also musician

 

John Hill Maccann was born about 1860, hence would be about 48 in 1908. How could he have a son aged 47? Precocious or what?

 

Whilst, if we're to be precise (as if ANYTHING in this nightmarish mess could be precise! :rolleyes: ), the only middle name we otherwise have for John Hill Maccann's father is Beckit (another "family" name, like Hilham) - in that he was John Beckit Macann at his only marriage, to Louisa Hanwell in Spalding, Lincs. in 1843 - and John Hill Maccann was born John Job Macann [sic] in Birmingham, Warwks. on 1st, 2nd OR 3rd January 1860, though he was baptised John Job Maccann at Plymouth, St Peter, Devon on 31st May 1866, but seemingly appears on the 1861 Census (in his maternal grandparents household) as John Hill! :huh:

 

Indeed there's possibly a precedent there for "disappearing" - in that it looks rather like John Beckit Macann, his much younger pupil Sarah Hill and their infant child John Job Macann/John Hill/John Hill Maccann "did a runner" from Birmingham, to Plymouth, to escape from the father's marriage to Louisa Hanwell and any scandal they may have caused... Could the change in the spelling of the family surname (from Macann to Maccann), around the same time, have been an attempt to disguise their identity?

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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  • 4 years later...

Looking at Ancestry.com again, I've come across a reference to the death of a John H Maccann, father's name John, in Australia in 1915.

 

It may well be a total red herring, but has anybody looked at this, or have access to Australian death records to check it out?

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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21 hours ago, Stephen Chambers said:

Looking at Ancestry.com again, I've come across a reference to the death of a John H Maccann, father's name John, in Australia in 1915.

 

It may well be a total red herring, but has anybody looked at this, or have access to Australian death records to check it out?

 

Nope, forget that - I've found it!

 

"Mother's Given Name(s)  - Kathleen O B"

 

He's slipped through the net yet again!!!

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  • 2 years later...

I've been absent from this thread for rather a long time, and for some reason the other night started delving into John Hill Maccann's online records. Having posted up one or two facts that had leapt at me from some stuff on Ancestry on Facebook Stephen Chambers alerted me to the fact that he had already posted up about Maccann's sojourn in St Georges Hospital, transfer to Bethlem etc. Strangely, not having looked at this thread in over 8 years I had forgotten a lot of the information on the thread, although I was obviously a part of it at one point!! (Must admit I have been absent from Cnet for quite a long time).
However, in the course of some later digging around in the online resources, I came up against some information which I don't think has actually been recorded here anywhere. (It is a rather long thread, so I may have missed it.) I've long been fascinated by that marriage record from 1908 and the subterfuge of the false entries, not to mention the family background (like father ,like son). So this evening I decided to have a look for any information on Sarah Jane Maccann ... and a search on Find My Past threw up just two entries at time of search (the search engine always seems a little quirky and can provide alternative information on further attempts). And what it threw up was a couple of entries for the lady which showed that she was admitted to the Liverpool Workhouse on 17 May 1913, where she is recorded as 42 years old , and the wife of John Maccann ,musician from the address 53 Kempston Street in Liverpool. She was discharged from the Workhouse on 30 May 1913 (so a stay of just under two weeks).The record shows where she was located in the house as "Surg", which I take to be "surgery" although without access to the actual records of the inmates I have no idea whether that guess is accurate or not. The records show that her husband was resident at the same address.
if this information is already on this thread - apologies. If not, it would appear that at least we know that the aliens had not yet abducted Professor Maccann.

I have googled the address and looked at the online image of it as it is now - looks a pretty ribby district now, and the address currently houses what looks like a rather rundown music venue "Round the Corner". A lot of the windows in the houses at the location have been bricked up in the past. Heaven knows what it was like in 1913.

I became interested in the fact that in December 1913 at a degree ceremony of Liverpool University an honorary degree was awarded in recognition of of eminent public services to Professor John Maccunn (which the Newspaper library had flagged up as John Maccann) ... a bit disappointing, but clearly two different surnames! 🤣

Sits back and waits for somebody to tell me that this information is on this rather long but fascinating thread already!
 

Edited by Irene S.
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I have just been re reading some of the earlier parts of this thread, and notice that 8 or more years ago I was trying to track down the date and place of Professor Maccann's death (alongside several others), and I gather from a conversation with Stephen Chambers elsewhere on Facebook this week that a death certificate had still not been tracked down (someone having tried but being told a death certificate for a date recorded in 1915 was untraceable.) Having taken up an interest again, I'm happy to say that I have just been staring at a copy of the death certificate which I have obtained for John McCann, musician, in Liverpool Workhouse on 12 October 1915, which accords with the dated obituary of 14 October 1915 recorded earlier in this thread.

It may be that some early research was scuppered by assuming that the date of December 1915 in some records was the month of death, whereas in the records it records the end of the quarter in which the death was registered. I think, also, that some assumed that the date of death given of 69 meant it could not be the same person. The professional geneaologist of my acquaintance (40 years' worth of experience of tracing even the most notoriously difficult to find individuals!) assured me before the certificate copy arrived that the date of death on a certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant. In this case the informant was the Governor of the Workhouse. (Said geneaologist snorted and indicated that she was not surprised at the inaccurate information - informant not a relative, and maybe noone else available to provide the information.  )

So, all said and done,it wasn't aliens after all.

The details are as follows:

When and where died :   Twelfth October, 1915  Liverpool Workhouse Infirmary U.D
Name and surname  :      John McCann
Sex:                                   Male
Age:                                   69 years
Rank or Profession:           Musician of 35 St Anne Street U D
Cause of Death:               Bronchitis  (2) Cardiac Dilatation  Certified by F J Devlin MB
Signature ,Description and Residence of Informant:
                                           W Bray ... Governor Liverpool Workhouse
When Registerd:                Nineteenth October 1915

I just had a look at the images of the address given in St Anne's Street on Google maps, which now appears to be a multistorey car park (not sure about that) on a dual carriage way, although there is a Victorian building standing on the opposite side of the road  ... but everything else on the Street is modern.

So, although the age at date of death on the certificate is quite clearly an inaccurate one ... all the facts fit ... date of the obituary which clearly shows that the Maccann /McCann who died had played in exalted circumstances in his earlier years, but had by the date of his death been reduced to playing in front of football crowds and in pubs and was obviously in reduced circumstances (as evidenced by his "wife" Sarah's residency in the workhouse for a fortnight in 1913. They had obviously had to move from their address in 1913 (always assuming that Sarah was still with him in 1915).

I was interested to check up on cardiac dilatation - it seems that among the symptoms are tiredness, shortness of breath, swelling in legs, ankles, stomach, chest pain etc. There are apparently a number of possible causes of the illness, hereditary tendencies being one. Interestingly, given some of the speculation on the thread, one of these can be alcohol misuse and one of the risk factors for the condition can be longterm excessive alcohol use . However, having said that there are many other possibilities. Whatever the case he was clearly in a very poorly way

If I was closer to Liverpool I would love to make a visit to the local record office concerned to see if there were entries for him in the Workhouse records to flesh this out a bit, but if there is anyone who is able to do this, I would love to see what came of it.

What a sad end. From "King" or "Champion" of concertina players, playing in front of Royalty , making trips around the globe as a celebrated concertinist to playing in the pubs or at football matches, and then dying in the workhouse.




 

Edited by Irene S.
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47 minutes ago, Irene S. said:

I have just been re reading some of the earlier parts of this thread, and notice that 8 or more years ago I was trying to track down the date and place of Professor Maccann's death (alongside several others), and I gather from a conversation with Stephen Chambers elsewhere on Facebook this week that a death certificate had still not been tracked down (someone having tried but being told a death certificate for a date recorded in 1915 was untraceable.) Having taken up an interest again, I'm happy to say that I have just been staring at a copy of the death certificate which I have obtained for John McCann, musician, in Liverpool Workhouse on 12 October 1915, which accords with the dated obituary of 14 October 1915 recorded earlier in this thread.

It may be that some early research was scuppered by assuming that the date of December 1915 in some records was the month of death, whereas in the records it records the end of the quarter in which the death was registered. I think, also, that some assumed that the date of death given of 69 meant it could not be the same person. The professional geneaologist of my acquaintance (40 years' worth of experience of tracing even the most notoriously difficult to find individuals!) assured me before the certificate copy arrived that the date of death on a certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant. In this case the informant was the Governor of the Workhouse. (Said geneaologist snorted and indicated that she was not surprised at the inaccurate information - informant not a relative, and maybe noone else available to provide the information.  )

So, all said and done,it wasn't aliens after all.

The details are as follows:

When and where died :   Twelfth October, 1915  Liverpool Workhouse Infirmary U.D
Name and surname  :      John McCann
Sex:                                   Male
Age:                                   69 years
Rank or Profession:           Musician of 35 St Anne Street U D
Cause of Death:               Bronchitis  (2) Cardiac Dilatation  Certified by F J Devlin MB
Signature ,Description and Residence of Informant:
                                           W Bray ... Governor Liverpool Workhouse
When Registerd:                Nineteenth October 1915

I just had a look at the images of the address given in St Anne's Street on Google maps, which now appears to be a multistorey car park (not sure about that) on a dual carriage way, although there is a Victorian building standing on the opposite side of the road  ... but everything else on the Street is modern.

So, the age at date of death on the certificate is quite clearly an inaccurate one ... all the facts fit ... date of the obituary which clearly shows that the Maccann /McCann who died had played in exalted circumstances in his earlier years, but had by the date of his death been reduced to playing in front of football crowds and in pubs and was obviously in reduced circumstances (as evidenced by his "wife" Sarah's residency in the workhouse for a fortnight in 1913. They had obviously had to move from their address in 1913 (always assuming that Sarah was still with him in 1915).

I was interested to check up on cardiac dilatation - it seems that among the symptoms are tiredness, shortness of breath, swelling in legs, ankles, stomach, chest pain etc. There are apparently a number of possible causes of the illness, hereditary tendencies being one. Interestingly, given some of the speculation on the thread, one of these can be alcohol misuse and one of the risk factors for the condition can be longterm excessive alcohol use . However, having said that there are many other possibilities. Whatever the case he was clearly in a very poorly way

If I was closer to Liverpool I would love to make a visit to the local record office concerned to see if there were entries for him in the Workhouse records to flesh this out a bit, but if there is anyone who is able to do this, I would love to see what came of it.

What a sad end. From "King" or "Champion" of concertina players, playing in front of Royalty , making trips around the globe as a celebrated concertinist to playing in the pubs or at football matches, and then dying in the workhouse.




 

Just having a look at this ( for the first time, so please forgive me if I am covering  old ground)...the 1911 census gives John 50yrs and Sarah 40yrs Maccann living at 1 Winter Street....

 

Then I found this

 

Snap 2023-02-17 at 18.04.17.png

continued overleaf

Edited by sadbrewer
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