The Piper's Despair

[Helmut]

Does anyone have the notes of the reel "The piper's despair" as it is played by Jason O'Rourke on his CD "The bunch of keys"?

I found a reel with that name on the internet, but it is not the same.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Johan Ponsaerts

Brussels

[Chris Ghent]

Does anyone have the notes of the reel "The piper's despair" as it is played by Jason O'Rourke on his CD "The bunch of keys"?

I found a reel with that name on the internet, but it is not the same.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Johan Ponsaerts

Brussels

I went looking for it also some time ago and found nothing. In the end I slowed it down to half time/same pitch and learned it by ear. Let me know if you do not come across it anywhere and I will write it out for you, but I am slow and it will take a while. A great tune and well worth the effort.

 

regs

 

Chris

[Chris Ghent]

I have now remembered the situation is more complicated. I learnt the tune note for note from the JO'R CD without reading the liner notes. I then read that he plays it in C minor on a BfF concertina, which of course I am now doing on a C/G. It was not easy at first, but as usual one adapts. It might be better to shift to E minor if you want to play it with others. The liner notes also record the tune is sometimes called the Piper's Broken Finger, but I can't find it under that either.

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

...he plays it in C minor on a Bb/F concertina, which of course I am now doing on a C/G. It might be better to shift to E minor if you want to play it with others.

The fingering for C minor on a Bb/F will give you D minor on a C/G, not E minor. So unless you know that others play it in Em, learning it there might not be the best.

 

The liner notes also record the tune is sometimes called the Piper's Broken Finger, but I can't find it under that either.

That sounds familiar. I think I may have an LP of uilleann pipe music with that title. I'll look for it.

 

Of course, even if I do find it, that doesn't guarantee that it will be "as it is played by Jason O'Rourke on his CD", which is what Johan asked for.

[Chris Ghent]

...he plays it in C minor on a Bb/F concertina, which of course I am now doing on a C/G. It might be better to shift to E minor if you want to play it with others.

The fingering for C minor on a Bb/F will give you D minor on a C/G, not E minor. So unless you know that others play it in Em, learning it there might not be the best.

I learnt it by ear, Jim, so if he was playing it in C minor, I am too.

 

The reason for mentioning E minor was JO'R's liner notes said it is usually played in that key.

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

...he plays it in C minor on a Bb/F concertina, which of course I am now doing on a C/G. It might be better to shift to E minor if you want to play it with others.

The fingering for C minor on a Bb/F will give you D minor on a C/G, not E minor. So unless you know that others play it in Em, learning it there might not be the best.

The reason for mentioning E minor was JO'R's liner notes said it is usually played in that key.

So you do "know that others play it in Em". That's good to know.

 

But the relations between keys means that if he's playing in Cm on a Bb/F, then if you use the same fingering on a C/G, you would be playing it in Dm, and you would need a D/A instrument (wasn't that a different Topic? ) to get it to sound in Em with his fingering.

In other words, whether you play it in Cm or Em on a C/G, neither can be gotten using the fingering he used on the recording. Nothing wrong with that; it's just an observation. But anyone trying to play in those keys on a C/G shouldn't expect the bellows reversals to match up with the recording, and it's possible that the fingerings will be more difficult, too.

 

P.S. Aha! A quick browse through my books finds "The Piper's Despair" as a hornpipe in O'Neill's Music of Ireland (the photocopy of the original; I seem to have misplaced my copy of the Miles Krassen update), on p. 308. I don't have the recording of Jason, but this one sounds familiar, so I'll guess it's what you're looking for. It's printed in Em, with one sharp, but it sounds more natural (more familiar?) to me if I use C# instead of C-natural everywhere except in the last measure.

 

I just tried it in Em, Dm, and Cm. I think that Em can be tricky if you try to stick to one row, but can be simplified by being more free with cross fingering. Dm seems simpler for concertina, though not for fiddle. Cm... you're a brave man, Chris.

[Chris Ghent]

It wasn't bravery, it was bravery's constant companion, stupidity. If I had realised he was doing it on a Bf/F I would probably never have tried it. And then I would still be scared of playing in C minor. Not that I seek out any other tunes in that key!

 

I just went and looked in O'Neil's 1000 and it is there too. There are elements of similarity in the tunes, mainly in the first few bars.

 

Chris

[Chris Ghent]

Johann

 

Here is the first part of Piper's Despair as played by Jason O Rourke. I am reasonably confident of the notes, but less in the timing. It sounds OK when played through Noteworthy Composer. Second half will come sometime soon...

 

Chris

Edited July 30, 2004 by Chris Ghent

[JimLucas]

Second half will come sometime soon...

I see 16 measures, which to me looks like both halves of a 2-part tune. Have you then added the second half without changing you text that said it would happen in the future, or is there still more to come?

 

It does seem to start out similar to the "Pipers' Despair" in O'Neill's (which is in Em), but shares little more than the chords structure after the first couple of measures. It abandons even that with the natural notes, and it's missing the significant internal repetition of the O'Neill's version. I wonder how long ago the two versions diverged, if indeed they did evolve from one tune.s

 

Thanks for "the dots".

[Chris Ghent]

Jim,

 

quite right, I must have been thoroughly confused when I wrote the first post. It is all there. I only intended to post the first half because I was less sure of the last half. It sounds OK on Composer as I said, but I do have a lot of trouble with getting the right number of beats in the bar. This is compounded by the ornaments used by JO'R, which I have trouble distinguishing from the tune, as I have not heard the tune without them. Consequently some of the triplets might be better written as grace notes. I would be happy for the notes to be changed by someone who can see its problems.

 

I agree with the comparison with the O'Neil's version.

 

I often say to myself, I must sit down and establish a better music theory base for reading and writing music but I usually end up playing instead. I most often learn a tune because I like it when I hear it. The dots only play a confirmatory role.

 

Chris

[oruairc]

It does seem to start out similar to the "Pipers' Despair" in O'Neill's (which is in Em), but shares little more than the chords structure after the first couple of measures. It abandons even that with the natural notes, and it's missing the significant internal repetition of the O'Neill's version. I wonder how long ago the two versions diverged, if indeed they did evolve from one tune.s

 

Hello folks, I only just found this thread. If I'd known how much fun could be had by transposing a tune down a key and then playing it on a Bb/F concertina I would have done it more often ;-)

 

We did do some more Bb/f stuff on the new CD (shameless plug) but I don't recall transposing any of the tunes.

 

I think I added the natural notes myself, but only when playing it in Dm (or Cm). When playing in Em, the usual session key, I don't think I bother. Does that help?

 

Cheers, Jason

[Henrik Müller]

Does anyone have the notes of the reel "The piper's despair" as it is played by Jason O'Rourke on his CD "The bunch of keys"?

I found a reel with that name on the internet, but it is not the same.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Johan Ponsaerts

Brussels

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello, Johan -

When you say "on the internet" - would it be TheSession.org?

 

I haven't heard Jason O'Rourke's CD, and the "Piper's Despair" I found in my own tunes was on "Buttons & Bows: The First Month Of Summer", last track, 1st tune. Which is the one above, on Session.org.

 

Henrik

[Chris Ghent]

Hello folks, I only just found this thread. If I'd known how much fun could be had by transposing a tune down a key and then playing it on a Bb/F concertina I would have done it more often  ;-)

 

We did do some more Bb/f stuff on the new CD (shameless plug) but I don't recall transposing any of the tunes.

 

I think I added the natural notes myself, but only when playing it in Dm (or Cm). When playing in Em, the usual session key, I don't think I bother. Does that help?

 

Cheers, Jason

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jason,

 

it is a great pleasure to be able to say to you here in this forum, I love "The Bunch of Keys..."

 

I see you can buy the new CD Roguery Road here, Thought I'd give your shameless plug a push along !

 

Chris Ghent