Limited accordion/tina/melodeon repertoires?

[Kautilya]

Looking at the February 2011 concert report from March 2011 newsletter from Leyland Accordion Club (where there are also tina and melodeon players) I wonder why accordionisti seem to have such a wide and eclectic repertoire of toons.

 

Do folk find as broad an offering amongst the regular and same toons which one hears repeated, repeatedly at different tina/mel sessions (caveat Lavender Hill and Barclay Square of course!)

 

Just asking you understand, not trying to make a point....

 

Is it just a D/G key issue, or if we all played C machines would that open up something?

Edited March 15, 2011 by Kautilya

[Gary Chapin]

Do you think it's attributable to the instrument, or is it part of the nature of sessions? I am not familiar with the PA sessions you are describing. It might be that with PAs and such, folks are more comfortable (and more skilled?) at playing accompanying figures. In a lot of sessions I've been to, the melody is the thing, if you don't know that then it's time to get a pint. If the nature of the session means that starting a tune no one else knows equals playing alone, then many won't start new tunes. It's an interesting question.

[Kautilya]

Do you think it's attributable to the instrument, or is it part of the nature of sessions? I am not familiar with the PA sessions you are describing. It might be that with PAs and such, folks are more comfortable (and more skilled?) at playing accompanying figures. In a lot of sessions I've been to, the melody is the thing, if you don't know that then it's time to get a pint. If the nature of the session means that starting a tune no one else knows equals playing alone, then many won't start new tunes. It's an interesting question.

Just realised the link to the list of tunes played may not have worked:

here is extract:

 

At our February concert David Rigby played Snow Waltz, The Loveliest Night Of The Year, The Good Old Summertime, Whispering Hope, Dark Island, The Spinning Wheel and After The Ball Was Over. After that great opening we continued with Bernard Belshaw playing You Made Me Love You, Thunderbirds Are Go, Funiculi Funicula, Overhead The Moon Is Shining, Nessun Dorma, Face The Music And Dance, Bonnie And Clyde, Blaze Away, Moonlight Serenade, Jealousy and Blue Tango. Our next player was Albert Draper who had surprised us by bringing his accordion to the club, it was a nice surprise and we enjoyed Albert playing I Love You Because, O Sole Mio, Amazing Grace, He'll Have To Go and Lily Marlene. Our next player was Colin Ensor, Colin Played The Blacksmith, There Must Be A Way, Island Of Dreams, Leaving Lerwick Harbour and Sweetheart Of All My Dreams. Andrew Baker then took to the stage, he started with Hey Jude and then continued with Come Back To Sorrento and Kiss Me Honey Honey. To take us up to the break Bernard Bamber played Yellow Rose Of Texas, Marching To Georgia, Camptown Races, Swannee River, Polly Wolly Doodle, Bobby Shaftoe, Blaydon Races, McNamarras Band, All The Nice Girls and Broke The Bank at Monte Carlo. After the break we started the second half with Sara Daly playing Oh How We Danced, Dark Eyes, Hava Nagila, Waltz Of The Little Girl, Come By The Hills and Karabushka. Our next player Rebecca Parker played Home On The Range, My Wild Irish Rose and Moon River, Rebecca was followed by Ann Parker playing Snow Waltz, Beautiful Days and Bel Viso. To finish the night I then played Now Is The Hour. This had been another great local players concert and as you can see, we heard some great tunes courtesy of the above players.

 

David Batt

[spindizzy]

Do you think it's attributable to the instrument, or is it part of the nature of sessions? I am not familiar with the PA sessions you are describing. It might be that with PAs and such, folks are more comfortable (and more skilled?) at playing accompanying figures. In a lot of sessions I've been to, the melody is the thing, if you don't know that then it's time to get a pint. If the nature of the session means that starting a tune no one else knows equals playing alone, then many won't start new tunes. It's an interesting question.

Just realised the link to the list of tunes played may not have worked:

here is extract:

 

At our February concert David Rigby played Snow Waltz, The Loveliest Night Of The Year, The Good Old Summertime, Whispering Hope, Dark Island, The Spinning Wheel and After The Ball Was Over. After that great opening we continued with Bernard Belshaw playing You Made Me Love You, Thunderbirds Are Go, Funiculi Funicula, Overhead The Moon Is Shining, Nessun Dorma, Face The Music And Dance, Bonnie And Clyde, Blaze Away, Moonlight Serenade, Jealousy and Blue Tango. Our next player was Albert Draper who had surprised us by bringing his accordion to the club, it was a nice surprise and we enjoyed Albert playing I Love You Because, O Sole Mio, Amazing Grace, He'll Have To Go and Lily Marlene. Our next player was Colin Ensor, Colin Played The Blacksmith, There Must Be A Way, Island Of Dreams, Leaving Lerwick Harbour and Sweetheart Of All My Dreams. Andrew Baker then took to the stage, he started with Hey Jude and then continued with Come Back To Sorrento and Kiss Me Honey Honey. To take us up to the break Bernard Bamber played Yellow Rose Of Texas, Marching To Georgia, Camptown Races, Swannee River, Polly Wolly Doodle, Bobby Shaftoe, Blaydon Races, McNamarras Band, All The Nice Girls and Broke The Bank at Monte Carlo. After the break we started the second half with Sara Daly playing Oh How We Danced, Dark Eyes, Hava Nagila, Waltz Of The Little Girl, Come By The Hills and Karabushka. Our next player Rebecca Parker played Home On The Range, My Wild Irish Rose and Moon River, Rebecca was followed by Ann Parker playing Snow Waltz, Beautiful Days and Bel Viso. To finish the night I then played Now Is The Hour. This had been another great local players concert and as you can see, we heard some great tunes courtesy of the above players.

 

David Batt

 

That looks like a concert though.... and the players were soloists, each bringing along what might have been a well thought out and practiced and wide ranging program for display.

A session is a whole different animal, and the intention is not for one person to play solo.

New tunes need to be introduced carefully and at decent intervals. If no one joins in with a tune you can a) roll straight on to the next one if encouragement is given, play it a whole load until people have picked up on it.

 

Chris

[Dan Worrall]

The tunes on that list include many, many that once were the standard repertoire on the German and Anglo concertinas....popular waltzes and songs, minstrel tunes (including Stephen Foster), etc. The Anglo once was mainly an instrument for popular music--it doesn't take long in reading through old 'sightings' to see that--but it the "Folk Revival" it has in many if not most areas gotten caught in a complete rut of Irish session tunes and (to a lesser extent) morris dance tunes.

 

There is so much more that could easily be played, and is, locally. The South African Boers have really shown the way toward more modern, more chromatic tunes, including the jazzy/Broadway/Music Hall material on that list in addition to their own older dance repertoire. Some Australians have kept alive the old ballroom dance repertoire with their bush music. A good number in England play a similar type of repertoire with English Country Music (following in the footsteps of Scan Tester and some of the English melodeon players). We've been trying for some years now in Palestine Texas to revive that sort of repertoire, and old time American music, in Texas (limited success). And for the adventurous, there are any number of good recordings of various African cultures doing very interesting and "out of the box" things with the Anglo.

 

And yet most people look at the Anglo as an Irish reel box, to be played in a particular (and very modern) way. No problem there--it is indeed a very lovely repertoire and style that has done much to regenerate interest in the Anglo--but goodness there is so much more that has been, is and can be done with the instrument!

 

I better run for cover.

[Rod]

The tunes on that list include many, many that once were the standard repertoire on the German and Anglo concertinas....popular waltzes and songs, minstrel tunes (including Stephen Foster), etc. The Anglo once was mainly an instrument for popular music--it doesn't take long in reading through old 'sightings' to see that--but it the "Folk Revival" it has in many if not most areas gotten caught in a complete rut of Irish session tunes and (to a lesser extent) morris dance tunes.

 

There is so much more that could easily be played, and is, locally. The South African Boers have really shown the way toward more modern, more chromatic tunes, including the jazzy/Broadway/Music Hall material on that list in addition to their own older dance repertoire. Some Australians have kept alive the old ballroom dance repertoire with their bush music. A good number in England play a similar type of repertoire with English Country Music (following in the footsteps of Scan Tester and some of the English melodeon players). We've been trying for some years now in Palestine Texas to revive that sort of repertoire, and old time American music, in Texas (limited success). And for the adventurous, there are any number of good recordings of various African cultures doing very interesting and "out of the box" things with the Anglo.

 

And yet most people look at the Anglo as an Irish reel box, to be played in a particular (and very modern) way. No problem there--it is indeed a very lovely repertoire and style that has done much to regenerate interest in the Anglo--but goodness there is so much more that has been, is and can be done with the instrument!

 

I better run for cover.

 

No need to run for cover, Dan, although the last time I said something similar it ruffled a few feathers !

Is there no virtuosity out there to prove the true potential scope and versatility of the Anglo. If so, where is it hiding ?

[Dan Worrall]

The tunes on that list include many, many that once were the standard repertoire on the German and Anglo concertinas....popular waltzes and songs, minstrel tunes (including Stephen Foster), etc. The Anglo once was mainly an instrument for popular music--it doesn't take long in reading through old 'sightings' to see that--but it the "Folk Revival" it has in many if not most areas gotten caught in a complete rut of Irish session tunes and (to a lesser extent) morris dance tunes.

 

There is so much more that could easily be played, and is, locally. The South African Boers have really shown the way toward more modern, more chromatic tunes, including the jazzy/Broadway/Music Hall material on that list in addition to their own older dance repertoire. Some Australians have kept alive the old ballroom dance repertoire with their bush music. A good number in England play a similar type of repertoire with English Country Music (following in the footsteps of Scan Tester and some of the English melodeon players). We've been trying for some years now in Palestine Texas to revive that sort of repertoire, and old time American music, in Texas (limited success). And for the adventurous, there are any number of good recordings of various African cultures doing very interesting and "out of the box" things with the Anglo.

 

And yet most people look at the Anglo as an Irish reel box, to be played in a particular (and very modern) way. No problem there--it is indeed a very lovely repertoire and style that has done much to regenerate interest in the Anglo--but goodness there is so much more that has been, is and can be done with the instrument!

 

I better run for cover.

 

No need to run for cover, Dan, although the last time I said something similar it ruffled a few feathers !

Is there no virtuosity out there to prove the true potential scope and versatility of the Anglo. If so, where is it hiding ?

 

No hiding...there are plenty of good examples on Anglo International. Then go to the Boeremusiek sites and look at all the CDs there...some of that is amazing and modern; others are more into the old styles. I documented a wealth of black African CDs from various countries in my book--or ask Harry Scurfield, who knows much more about the Squashbox. There is a fair number of publically available good Australian recordings (start with Dooley Chapman, I'd say). Also a good number of amazing English Anglo recordings, old and new. If however you buy your concertina CDs only at typical Folk Revival-style music outlets, be prepared to listen to a lot of reels.

 

I'm not sure that 'virtuosity' is always the best route. Sure, a professional player, or an unusually gifted player (or both) can do amazing things, but sometimes I get the feeling that in following such a person as an example/mentor, it tends to narrow one's playing, because most amateur folks who have a job and perhaps a family have little time for much else, musically. Going simpler and casting a broader musical net is another, though less travelled, path. Certainly the ancients....the nineteenth and early twentieth century players....were of that mindset, from what I have been able to hear in early recordings. Dooley Chapman, for example, played a variety of things from a variey of sources (English music hall, Irish, American minstrel, and local tunes), as did Scan Tester and (to some extent) Faan Harris. And they played in a simpler style that is quite approachable by anyone of average skills (well, ok, Faan Harris does do some gymnastics at times). In contrast, most of the Irish concertina virtuosos of today seem to be relatively monocultural in their tastes. Nothing wrong with that, one must say....they are emerging from a time not too long ago when that repertoire was under threat of disappearing....but their Irish predecessors of four generations ago played a broader repertoire, from what I can see (which is one reason the good Captain O'Neill ignored the concertina!). At that time, the concertina was not a "folk" instrument, and it was played in a far simpler way, regardless of what was being played.

 

So vive la différence....as long as their remains a différence to vive.

[gcoover]

The tunes on that list include many, many that once were the standard repertoire on the German and Anglo concertinas....popular waltzes and songs, minstrel tunes (including Stephen Foster), etc. The Anglo once was mainly an instrument for popular music--it doesn't take long in reading through old 'sightings' to see that--but it the "Folk Revival" it has in many if not most areas gotten caught in a complete rut of Irish session tunes and (to a lesser extent) morris dance tunes.

 

There is so much more that could easily be played, and is, locally. The South African Boers have really shown the way toward more modern, more chromatic tunes, including the jazzy/Broadway/Music Hall material on that list in addition to their own older dance repertoire. Some Australians have kept alive the old ballroom dance repertoire with their bush music. A good number in England play a similar type of repertoire with English Country Music (following in the footsteps of Scan Tester and some of the English melodeon players). We've been trying for some years now in Palestine Texas to revive that sort of repertoire, and old time American music, in Texas (limited success). And for the adventurous, there are any number of good recordings of various African cultures doing very interesting and "out of the box" things with the Anglo.

 

And yet most people look at the Anglo as an Irish reel box, to be played in a particular (and very modern) way. No problem there--it is indeed a very lovely repertoire and style that has done much to regenerate interest in the Anglo--but goodness there is so much more that has been, is and can be done with the instrument!

 

I better run for cover.

 

No need to run for cover, Dan, although the last time I said something similar it ruffled a few feathers !

Is there no virtuosity out there to prove the true potential scope and versatility of the Anglo. If so, where is it hiding ?

 

No hiding...there are plenty of good examples on Anglo International. Then go to the Boeremusiek sites and look at all the CDs there...some of that is amazing and modern; others are more into the old styles. I documented a wealth of black African CDs from various countries in my book--or ask Harry Scurfield, who knows much more about the Squashbox. There is a fair number of publically available good Australian recordings (start with Dooley Chapman, I'd say). Also a good number of amazing English Anglo recordings, old and new. If however you buy your concertina CDs only at typical Folk Revival-style music outlets, be prepared to listen to a lot of reels.

 

I'm not sure that 'virtuosity' is always the best route. Sure, a professional player, or an unusually gifted player (or both) can do amazing things, but sometimes I get the feeling that in following such a person as an example/mentor, it tends to narrow one's playing, because most amateur folks who have a job and perhaps a family have little time for much else, musically. Going simpler and casting a broader musical net is another, though less travelled, path. Certainly the ancients....the nineteenth and early twentieth century players....were of that mindset, from what I have been able to hear in early recordings. Dooley Chapman, for example, played a variety of things from a variey of sources (English music hall, Irish, American minstrel, and local tunes), as did Scan Tester and (to some extent) Faan Harris. And they played in a simpler style that is quite approachable by anyone of average skills (well, ok, Faan Harris does do some gymnastics at times). In contrast, most of the Irish concertina virtuosos of today seem to be relatively monocultural in their tastes. Nothing wrong with that, one must say....they are emerging from a time not too long ago when that repertoire was under threat of disappearing....but their Irish predecessors of four generations ago played a broader repertoire, from what I can see (which is one reason the good Captain O'Neill ignored the concertina!). At that time, the concertina was not a "folk" instrument, and it was played in a far simpler way, regardless of what was being played.

 

So vive la différence....as long as their remains a différence to vive.

 

Dan makes some excellent points, so no brickbats folks! I think the limitations, if any, are twofold - the instrument, and the player. Piano accordions can do most anything in any key, so they are really only limited by the creativity and talent of the player. English concertinas can certainly do a world of different music, but the Anglo does present certain "challenges" in the way of key and chromaticity (can that color word be used for music?).

 

If there is any limitation in the current Anglo repertoire I suspect it has more to do with the particular interests of the players. I picked up concertina because I love traditional British and Irish music, and don't really want to play old pop standards or Britney Spears, so, the tunes I play match the instrument quite well. But if anyone thinks the Anglo is limited, listen like Dan says to some of the South African stuff out there - especially any of the videos on YouTube posted by "Springbok07". They get some utterly amazing sounds out of those boxes!

 

But, as awesome as all that is, I'll appreciate their efforts and keep learning and playing the English tunes I love so well!

 

Gary

[Kautilya]

Do you think it's attributable to the instrument, or is it part of the nature of sessions? I am not familiar with the PA sessions you are describing. It might be that with PAs and such, folks are more comfortable (and more skilled?) at playing accompanying figures. In a lot of sessions I've been to, the melody is the thing, if you don't know that then it's time to get a pint. If the nature of the session means that starting a tune no one else knows equals playing alone, then many won't start new tunes. It's an interesting question.

Just realised the link to the list of tunes played may not have worked:

here is extract:

 

we heard some great tunes courtesy of the above players.

 

David Batt

 

That looks like a concert though.... and the players were soloists, each bringing along what might have been a well thought out and practiced and wide ranging program for display.

A session is a whole different animal, and the intention is not for one person to play solo.

New tunes need to be introduced carefully and at decent intervals. If no one joins in with a tune you can a) roll straight on to the next one if encouragement is given, play it a whole load until people have picked up on it.

 

Chris

yes, quite right Chris, concert for and by the regulars - forgive me if you thought I meant the framework. I was talking about the range of material. Same range of material around the vast bar on practice nights, the couple of times I have been (and not just accordions).

 

Sessions for tina and melodion I go to don't seem to have that range....

[Kautilya]

The tunes on that list include many, many that once were the standard repertoire on the German and Anglo concertinas....popular waltzes and songs, minstrel tunes (including Stephen Foster), etc. The Anglo once was mainly an instrument for popular music--it doesn't take long in reading through old 'sightings' to see that--but it the "Folk Revival" it has in many if not most areas gotten caught in a complete rut of Irish session tunes and (to a lesser extent) morris dance tunes.

 

There is so much more that could easily be played, and is, locally. The South African Boers have really shown the way toward more modern, more chromatic tunes, including the jazzy/Broadway/Music Hall material on that list in addition to their own older dance repertoire. Some Australians have kept alive the old ballroom dance repertoire with their bush music. A good number in England play a similar type of repertoire with English Country Music (following in the footsteps of Scan Tester and some of the English melodeon players). We've been trying for some years now in Palestine Texas to revive that sort of repertoire, and old time American music, in Texas (limited success). And for the adventurous, there are any number of good recordings of various African cultures doing very interesting and "out of the box" things with the Anglo.

 

And yet most people look at the Anglo as an Irish reel box, to be played in a particular (and very modern) way. No problem there--it is indeed a very lovely repertoire and style that has done much to regenerate interest in the Anglo--but goodness there is so much more that has been, is and can be done with the instrument!

 

I better run for cover.

It may be you will find me waiting for you behind the parapet to put our heads up over it at the same time!

I would just like to think there were more toons out there which we may be missing, which was why it was so refreshing to hear the Moscow Nights popping up in their different versions.....

Sometimes one worries tina and melodeons have been straitjacketed a little and the full potential is waiting to burst out.

[JimLucas]

Looking at the February 2011 concert report from March 2011 newsletter from Leyland Accordion Club (where there are also tina and melodeon players) I wonder why accordionisti seem to have such a wide and eclectic repertoire of toons.

 

Do folk find as broad an offering amongst the regular and same toons which one hears repeated, repeatedly at different tina/mel sessions (caveat Lavender Hill and Barclay Square of course!)

 

...

Is it just a D/G key issue, or if we all played C machines would that open up something?

 

I don't think it's a key issue.

I don't think it's an instrument issue.

I think it's a

cultural

issue.

You might just as well ask why you don't hear more Johnny Cash, Miles Davis, and Beatles numbers at an All-Ireland competition. (An Irish friend in Copenhagen -- not a concertina player -- is in a group that performs almost exclusively traditional Irish songs and tunes, but one of his/their standard numbers is "Ain't Misbehavin'".)

 

These different groups of people simply have different musical habits and preferences. How many of them have chosen to become a member of one or another of these groups because of the music they play and how many play a certain instrument or repertoire because they've "grown up in" a particular group is a question I'm not going to worry about researching.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Looking at the February 2011 concert report from March 2011 newsletter from Is it just a D/G key issue, or if we all played C machines would that open up something?

 

I don't think it's a key issue.

I don't think it's an instrument issue.

I think it's a

cultural

issue.

 

Definitely!

 

And then there's microculture and macroculture.

 

Microculture is what you typically get at home, from parents, relatives and neighbours.

In my case my parents were musically diverse - father country, mother city, so a combination of traditional and classical music. And they were both Christians, so they were both into hymns and gospel songs. And they played music at home - the kinds of music they enjoyed listening to. Which meant that I grew up with a variety of instruments: a mandolin, a violin, a piano, a mouth-organ and an autoharp.

All this meant that, as soon as I was big enough to handle these instruments, my culturally conditioned reflex was just to grab any instrument and try to play what came into my head on it. And this would be one of the many tunes from many genres that I had heard. The music was the thing for me, and the instruments that happened to be there were used for whatever music it was. Later, when I was about 10, my father adopted an orphaned banjo, and I treated it the same way. Since then I've never played a particular piece of music merely because that's the kind of music one plays on the instrument I happened to have in my hands at the time.

 

So I know that there's a lot more in a banjo than Bluegrass, a lot more in a mandolin than Neapolitan serenades, etc. And a lot more in the concertina than ITM or Morris, of course.

 

Other people's microcultures are different. Some do not experience active music-making at home, and thus have no access to a specific instrument in their formative years. The up side of this is that they can choose which instrument they want from a larger selection than I did. They will probably not have as much music in their head, either, so they will learn the typical music of the instrument that they later choose to learn.

 

Now the macroculture: this is what goes on in society at large. And this has changed since I was a child (I get the first instalment of my OAP in July this year, yippee!). Back then, we listened to the radio. That was our medial universe. My family didn't even have a grammophone. So making your own music, and possessing the instruments to make it on, were normal.

Now we have dozens of radio channels, racks of CDs, the Internet, etc., etc.

 

The difference relevant to this discussion is that now, if we want to hear a particular tune, we can get a recording of it on the "proper" genre instrument: Piazola on the Bandoneon, Haydn on a string quartet. In the old days, you had to do both on the piano or accordion or concertina or violin, whatever you had handy. And for things that were too difficult for you, you had to rely on live musicians, who had to be able to play the popular melodies from all genres on their particular instruments.

 

I think this is the macroculture in which the PA became so popular. It is fully chromatic, as felxible as a piano and as easy as a rhythm guitar, and above all it has different registers for different moods. And it is loud and self-accompanying, so it can do all this without a band. I believe that the versatility that you observe in the PA repertoire today is a tradition that emerged in the pre-medial days, and has kept going. Very probably the addition of different registers was a move by the manufacturers to enhance this versatility - have any of you historians an opinion on this?

 

On the concertina (at least on the duets) on the other hand, you can play any notes or chords or rhythms you like, but the timbre is always the same. You can't switch it to "wet" for musette, or to "dry octave" for tango.

 

In the other hand again, other instruments are limited by having a fixed timbre - e.g. violin and clarinet. But if you listen to classic, jazz and various folk traditions, you'll hear how versatile these two instruments can be.

 

So let's not be discouraged. Play your kind of music on the concertina, and more power to both your elbows!

 

Cheers,

John