Shepherd's Hey

[Alan Day]

A rarely recorded Morris Tune here with a few variations played in C

Al

[Dan Worrall]

A rarely recorded Morris Tune here with a few variations played in C

Al

Nice one, Alan! It sounds good in C.

 

Although I couldn't help but think that the ghost of Kimber's father would wish to wrap your knuckles for the variations ("These are the notes you play, William, and you don't play any others.")

 

Dan

Edited March 7, 2011 by Dan Worrall

[Alan Day]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

[Dan Worrall]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

 

Yeah....we know his son was appalled. "He murdered it" was the retort. I suspect that he would hold your version as merely manslaughter.

 

As for myself, I only play that tune in daylight in a closed room. The ghost of Willie K has probably heard enough from me already!

Edited March 8, 2011 by Dan Worrall

[Rod]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

 

Yeah....we know his son was appalled. "He murdered it" was the retort. I suspect that he would hold your version as merely manslaughter.

 

As for myself, I only play that tune in daylight in a closed room. The ghost of Willie K has probably heard enough from me already!

 

I reckon it is all rather sad and depressing if Kimber really thought that there was only one strictly correct and proper way to play a tune.

[Dan Worrall]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

 

Yeah....we know his son was appalled. "He murdered it" was the retort. I suspect that he would hold your version as merely manslaughter.

 

As for myself, I only play that tune in daylight in a closed room. The ghost of Willie K has probably heard enough from me already!

 

I reckon it is all rather sad and depressing if Kimber really thought that there was only one strictly correct and proper way to play a tune.

 

Lighten up! Even William broke that rule.

 

Remember that popular music in WK's youth (and in his father's day) was spread orally, so they liked to remember things correctly, else they slowly (or rapidly) lose the tune forever. Also, I'd guess that the sort of improvisation that was later popularized by jazz (and of course in the classical music of the elites) was not around so much in rural areas....it was not particularly common to think about doing that to any great extent, so Grainger's version in particular may have been a little jarring. And remember that Grainger lifted the tune without attributing it to the country bumpkin (WK) who was its source. That more than anything seems to have steamed WK--and rightly so. Finally, William's father's comment about learning "only these notes" may have been an admonition to practice, so as not to make mistakes. Don't know.

 

We do know that Cecil Sharp, WK's great patron, was on a quest for perfect ancestral English folk tunes, passed down through the eons, and that may have colored much of what we hear about WK. I always find it amusing that one of ye olde Morris dance tunes collected and published by Sharp (eg, Getting Upstairs) was actually derived from American minstrels! Very tacky.

[Alan Day]

I must hold up my hand and acknowledge that I must have been guilty as a "By ear" player to have changed a few traditional tunes in my time. Mind you I certainly will not be at all concerned if one of my tunes gets a bit warped around the edges over a few years.I shall only be too pleased for people to play them.

Not sure how I have managed it but you can now see me on my videos whereas before you could not. I am certain it is something to do with the new Flash Player upload.

Al

[Rod]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

 

Yeah....we know his son was appalled. "He murdered it" was the retort. I suspect that he would hold your version as merely manslaughter.

 

As for myself, I only play that tune in daylight in a closed room. The ghost of Willie K has probably heard enough from me already!

 

 

 

I reckon it is all rather sad and depressing if Kimber really thought that there was only one strictly correct and proper way to play a tune.

 

Lighten up! Even William broke that rule.

 

Remember that popular music in WK's youth (and in his father's day) was spread orally, so they liked to remember things correctly, else they slowly (or rapidly) lose the tune forever. Also, I'd guess that the sort of improvisation that was later popularized by jazz (and of course in the classical music of the elites) was not around so much in rural areas....it was not particularly common to think about doing that to any great extent, so Grainger's version in particular may have been a little jarring. And remember that Grainger lifted the tune without attributing it to the country bumpkin (WK) who was its source. That more than anything seems to have steamed WK--and rightly so. Finally, William's father's comment about learning "only these notes" may have been an admonition to practice, so as not to make mistakes. Don't know.

 

We do know that Cecil Sharp, WK's great patron, was on a quest for perfect ancestral English folk tunes, passed down through the eons, and that may have colored much of what we hear about WK. I always find it amusing that one of ye olde Morris dance tunes collected and published by Sharp (eg, Getting Upstairs) was actually derived from American minstrels! Very tacky.

 

A really good tune is unlikely to ever be irreparably damaged, and certainly not lost to posterity as a result of the introduction of a measured dose of appropriate improvisation. It can in fact often introduce a breath of fresh air into a tired old tune and is certainly all very much part of the fun of creative music making.

[Alan Day]

Thanks Dan,

He must have been spinning in his grave when Percy Granger's version came out

Al

 

Yeah....we know his son was appalled. "He murdered it" was the retort. I suspect that he would hold your version as merely manslaughter.

 

As for myself, I only play that tune in daylight in a closed room. The ghost of Willie K has probably heard enough from me already!

 

 

 

I reckon it is all rather sad and depressing if Kimber really thought that there was only one strictly correct and proper way to play a tune.

 

Lighten up! Even William broke that rule.

 

Remember that popular music in WK's youth (and in his father's day) was spread orally, so they liked to remember things correctly, else they slowly (or rapidly) lose the tune forever. Also, I'd guess that the sort of improvisation that was later popularized by jazz (and of course in the classical music of the elites) was not around so much in rural areas....it was not particularly common to think about doing that to any great extent, so Grainger's version in particular may have been a little jarring. And remember that Grainger lifted the tune without attributing it to the country bumpkin (WK) who was its source. That more than anything seems to have steamed WK--and rightly so. Finally, William's father's comment about learning "only these notes" may have been an admonition to practice, so as not to make mistakes. Don't know.

 

We do know that Cecil Sharp, WK's great patron, was on a quest for perfect ancestral English folk tunes, passed down through the eons, and that may have colored much of what we hear about WK. I always find it amusing that one of ye olde Morris dance tunes collected and published by Sharp (eg, Getting Upstairs) was actually derived from American minstrels! Very tacky.

 

A really good tune is unlikely to ever be irreparably damaged, and certainly not lost to posterity as a result of the introduction of a measured dose of appropriate improvisation. It can in fact often introduce a breath of fresh air into a tired old tune and is certainly all very much part of the fun of creative music making.

It is certainly nice to take another look at some of these old friends as you suggest and try something a little different.

I stated on the video that the tune has been rarely recorded, I was wrong I found a whole nest of recordings of it, my apologies to those of you who have recorded it.

When we first started Rosbif (A Traditional French Style Band) it was interesting to notice how many variation of the same tune that turned up at French Sessions. When Mel was collecting the tunes He realised that very little if any had written music. This explains how some villages ,not that far from each other got the tunes all mixed up with A's not matching B's .This caused a lot of confusion particularly in the early days and you had to listen carefully to the tune first before launching into it.

Al

[Dan Worrall]

A really good tune is unlikely to ever be irreparably damaged, and certainly not lost to posterity as a result of the introduction of a measured dose of appropriate improvisation.

 

Hi Rod,

 

Got any good facts to back that up?

 

The very development of musical staff notation came about when the monk Guido d'Arezzo (c. 990-1050) worried about the loss of Gregorian chant melodies....there were so many of them (thousands, like reels in Irish music), all transmitted orally for centuries, that he was worried about the extent to which anyone could remember them all--he worried they were losing the old melodies (the words were of course written down). And he worried that the tunes were being modified relentlessly. So he more or less invented solfege (the do-re-mi guts of the diatonic system of the Anglo) and staff notation in order to firmly set the melodies down....and the rest (of all western music) is history. Here is a nice article on old Guido, who might be considered the patron saint (or at least patron monk!) of all diatonic instrument players: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07065a.htm

 

Another article on old Guido, and his concern for changing melodies:

http://www.longwood.edu/staff/swansoncl/Sightsinging/GUIDO%20AREZZO.htm

 

And here is an interesting article on oral transmission by the Maoris of their chants....and how concerned they were about losing things via change in inaccurate performance. Sounds a lot like Kimber Senior, come to think of it:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/835288

 

Somehow, I don't see that concern of theirs as depressing. Not everyone is as groovy and for the moment as we moderns.

 

But yes, I agree improv is fun. And I like Alan's version of the Hey!

 

Cheers,

Dan

Edited March 8, 2011 by Dan Worrall

[Rod]

A really good tune is unlikely to ever be irreparably damaged, and certainly not lost to posterity as a result of the introduction of a measured dose of appropriate improvisation.

 

Hi Rod,

 

Got any good facts to back that up?

 

The very development of musical staff notation came about when the monk Guido d'Arezzo (c. 990-1050) worried about the loss of Gregorian chant melodies....there were so many of them (thousands, like reels in Irish music), all transmitted orally for centuries, that he was worried about the extent to which anyone could remember them all--he worried they were losing the old melodies (the words were of course written down). And he worried that the tunes were being modified relentlessly. So he more or less invented solfege (the do-re-mi guts of the diatonic system of the Anglo) and staff notation in order to firmly set the melodies down....and the rest (of all western music) is history. Here is a nice article on old Guido, who might be considered the patron saint (or at least patron monk!) of all diatonic instrument players: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07065a.htm

 

Another article on old Guido, and his concern for changing melodies:

http://www.longwood.edu/staff/swansoncl/Sightsinging/GUIDO%20AREZZO.htm

 

And here is an interesting article on oral transmission by the Maoris of their chants....and how concerned they were about losing things via change in inaccurate performance. Sounds a lot like Kimber Senior, come to think of it:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/835288

 

Somehow, I don't see that concern of theirs as depressing. Not everyone is as groovy and for the moment as we moderns.

 

But yes, I agree improv is fun. And I like Alan's version of the Hey!

 

Cheers,

Dan

 

Dan, my last effort was just a casual opinion. I can't really back it up with good hard facts. Not quite my style !

 

When you refer, as you do more than once, to music being transmitted 'orally' I can only guess you intended to say 'aurally' unless of course you are thinking of the likes of Gregorian Chant ? Correct me if I am wrong.

[Woody]

...When you refer, as you do more than once, to music being transmitted 'orally' I can only guess you intended to say 'aurally' unless of course you are thinking of the likes of Gregorian Chant ? Correct me if I am wrong.

Oral transmission of a tradition possibly includes something like Kimber senior saying "Oi Son. Play this"

 

...hopefully the music would have been received aurally.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Woody