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Is anyone here chasing the Crabb?


Ptarmigan
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Just 24 Minutes to go on eBay, for this Crabb!

 

Cheers

Dick

 

 

Grab a Crabb? I would if I had the money, even though I don't play (yet) the anglo. It looks like a a smashing instrument. I often wonder whether Geoff Crabb is ever tempted to buy one of his family heirlooms back, when they come up for sale, like this beauty.

 

Chris

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Aye, Chris it looks rather tasty alright.

 

Did you see that it sold for £3,001 & beat the next bidder by just that single £1!

 

I'd hate to have missed out by such a small amount. Still, he'll know better the next time.

 

Cheers

Dick

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Aye, Chris it looks rather tasty alright.

 

Did you see that it sold for £3,001 & beat the next bidder by just that single £1!

 

I'd hate to have missed out by such a small amount. Still, he'll know better the next time.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

 

Yes, won by just £1. Crafty, eh? That's the way to bid, and that's the way I bid, especially on bikes. It's cycological, ya see! Incidently, the runner up bidder was Chris Algar, who always seems to bid in round numbers. Personally, I would never have bid £3000; it's too obvious. I woulda bid £3005. That would have clobbered him/her. And, that's why t'other fella bid £3001, to catch people out like Mr Algar. He's got enough concertinas already. He doesn't need anymore!

 

Chris

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It isn't really clear that the underbidder lost the Crabb by just one £. That's a bit too simple. The winner might have offered a proxy bid of £3,500, or even £5,000. Which is to say that had the underbidder raised his bid by that quid, or even by twenty quid, he still might not have won. So the underbidder didn't really lose it by 1£, though on the face of it this does appear to be the case.

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Ahhh ... so the only thing we can be sure of then, is that the bidder who was pipped at the post bid £3,000.

 

"It's a Funny Old Game!" ;)

 

Cheers

Dick

 

Yes by looking at the bids history, Algar waited at the last second (maybe using a sniper) and had a buy order of 3000... In my opinion it's a good technique as it doesn't leave enough time for someone else to place a manual bid. The only way to defend yourself against this is to do like the winner did, a higher limit that will automatically bid for you.

 

It's funny how an eBay auction is a bit irrelevant until it reaches its last minute. You can see that neither the winner or Algar bid on the item until the end, the other bidders ended up being 'decoration' for the auction's statistics :-)

 

One thing I'm convinced of is that this last minute bidding allows for the item to be sold at a cheaper price than if the 3000+ purchase offers would have been entered earlier. Someone who doesn't want to spend more than, let's say, 2500 on the time... can easily change is/her mind in the last few hours and push the price a bit. Something like "wow, I can't afford to pay more than 6000 pounds for that Dipper, but there's a chance I could get it for 6500... Maybe I can sell my TV or my car... I want to push that button.........".

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One thing I'm convinced of is that this last minute bidding allows for the item to be sold at a cheaper price than if the 3000+ purchase offers would have been entered earlier. Someone who doesn't want to spend more than, let's say, 2500 on the time... can easily change is/her mind in the last few hours and push the price a bit. Something like "wow, I can't afford to pay more than 6000 pounds for that Dipper, but there's a chance I could get it for 6500... Maybe I can sell my TV or my car... I want to push that button.........".

 

Here in NZ we have a local product called Trade Me. It's sort of Ebay but completely different in that it's user friendly and manages to give a family feel to all it's doings. It rules the roost in NZ, and I love Trade Me and loathe Ebay, there's that much in it. Anyway, they have something called 'autoextend' If someone bids in the last two minutes the auction extends for 2 minutes; and this goes on until there is a more than 2 minute period of inactivity. So you CAN'T snipe because when your snipe goes in the auction extends. It works really well but can be deeply frustrating when you are trying to buy something and get your bid in, and the other bidder is one of those muppets who doesn't know his own mind; you watch your lead whittled in increments; I had it go on for the best part of half an hour once. But the seller got a much better price than he would have under the Ebay system, and everyone knows where they stand; there's no jiggery-pokery involved.

 

Sadly for the rest of you, you need a NZ location to take part. At least I think so, although they may let the Australians play these days.

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Sounds like it's much more like a real auction then Dirge.

 

Maybe one day, eBay will follow suit, after all they'd make more & so would the seller, which is what it's all about & if it's fairer into the bargain, so much the better.

 

..... although they may let the Australians play these days.

 

Yeah, well I guess they need something to do, to take their minds off their Cricket team! :P

 

Cheers

Dick

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It isn't really clear that the underbidder lost the Crabb by just one £. That's a bit too simple. The winner might have offered a proxy bid of £3,500, or even £5,000. Which is to say that had the underbidder raised his bid by that quid, or even by twenty quid, he still might not have won. So the underbidder didn't really lose it by 1£, though on the face of it this does appear to be the case.

 

Not true, David. It is quite clear the underbidder lost the bid by £1. If that had not been the case and the winning bidder had bid a maximum bid of say £3,500, and the next highest bidder's bid was £3,000, the margin by which he beat the underbidder, would have to have been greater by the next amount up at that level, that it tells you you have to bid, perhaps £50. The amounts you have to raise your bid vary according to the sum being bid. With items under a pound, it's just a few pence, rising to something like £5 when an item reaches a bid of £100, and gradually, more, above that amount. Because of that, the winning bidder's maximum bid appears to have been just £3001, so if Chris Algar had bid £3002, or even £3001 and 1 pence, he would have won it, in my opinion, and I speak from personal experience, of having won items on Ebay by as little as that margin.

 

Chris

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Chris told me he's too busy so he uses a sniper. I don't think he'll lose much sleep anyway. Onward and upward!

 

A sniper? Personally, I use a digital kitchen timer. :) Some you win, some you lose. That's life. :( Reminds me of a C.net member who was, unknown to him, bidding against Chris A. in a proper auction for a concertina. Chris was bidding via the phone and subsequently placed the highest bid. A few days later said member gets a call from Chris to say, I have recently bought a concertina you might be interested in. :ph34r: It was the one he had recently been bidding on himself. In the end, he ended up buying it from Chris, the middle man, and was pleased, despite it! :D

 

Chris

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But the seller got a much better price than he would have under the Ebay system, and everyone knows where they stand; there's no jiggery-pokery involved.

It is not immediately clear that this is the case. People know the rules of auctions and bid differently according to the rules of those auctions. So, knowing that an auction does get time extensions, they likely keep something in reserve. Knowing that time is cut off, they likely bid full value sooner.

 

Certainly there are advantages to the NZ 2 minute rule. Well-informed bidders would like to keep their participation in an auction low visibility, because other bidders' valuations are affected by seeing the activity of well-informed bidders in an auction. Billion-dollar auctions, such as for mobile telephone frequencies, commonly have "activity rules" to force serious bidders to participate in the early stage of the auction, or lose the right to be able to bid later, for precisely the reason that an effective market is one where information is brought together, not concealed. An advantage of the NZ 2 minute rule is that it means that you can't limit your participation to a last second snipe, but must always have your participation visible at a time when the auction closes.

 

But is there also an advantage to the ebay fixed deadline auction? You don't have to be there to participate to the full in such an auction. You aren't missing much by failing to be present at the deadline. So probably more bidders can participate to the full in such an auction.

 

If I could guarantee that the serious bidders would be there and have my attention at the deadline, the NZ auction would be clearly better for the seller. In the real world, with many demands on our time, I'm not so convinced.

 

It does seem a little odd that a player would be outbid by a dealer and then buy it off that dealer, presumably at a profit to the dealer. Why didn't the player outbid the dealer in the first place? There is some logic to the situation. The amount that a player is willing to pay is influenced by resale value. Seeing that a well-informed dealer pays a certain amount, expecting a profit, the player obtains confidence that the valuation is higher than he first thought.

Edited by Ivan Viehoff
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Yeah, eBay must have its reason to use a fixed deadline. I can't believe a multi billion dollar company, with huge R&D teams, would not have thought of it if it could bring more money to eBay. My wild guess is that by allowing extension on the deadline, you piss off some bidders. The deadline on eBay is somewhat 'exciting' as you *know* it's the end, and if you're lucky the other bidders might not have enough time to outbid you. It might generate more excitement with bidders and also a belief that it's easier to get a cheaper price that way. So maybe eBay knows that by using an extended deadline method they'd make more money in the short term with higher item auction prices, but would lose money in the long run with less people overall bidding. Does that wild guess make any sense??

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The thing is snipes work; people do use them to get things cheap. Chris A's official reason may be that he is busy, but he could just put his bid on sometime beforehand and leave it to run. Instead he pays to use a snipe service. It suggests he thinks there's a gain, given it costs him money. On the rare occasions where I really want something I 'do it myself' snipe; I get my serious bid in in the last 20 secs so anyone anyone I'm bidding against is denied time to react. I'm sure this is worth doing. If you ever see a 'holding bid' by 'Sheptosteptoe' you can expect this.

 

Just as in Ebay the Trade Me bidder can put his top bid in well beforehand, and if he is first in at a price, he gets the item. He doesn't need to sit over it any more than you do with Ebay. Only now the underbidder can decide to have another go. In the example above Chris A would have had 2 minutes to put another $5 on it. I don't think he would, because Chris knows what he's doing but lots of people would and do; and I don't think anyone using Trade Me thinks that's unfair.

 

People are pretty dopey; and I've come across lots of people who have trouble working out what they are REALLY ready to pay in advance. How many times have you heard 'I wish I'd bid another $X on it.'

 

As for why Ebay doesn't do it; lots of things Ebay does are difficult to fathom. Who knows? But they're like Microsoft. Just because they're big business doesn't mean they're offering the best service; and they have a solid monopoly (in most of the world!) so they can afford complacency. Sadly.

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