Question re fifth jumps on EC

[Mary B]

I have been playing my Jackie about two months now. I have acquired the Butler, Anderson, and Carlin tutors in addition to the one from Concertina Connections. In all the books except Butler's (on page 55), the authors tell how to play the higher note (G or A) with the index finger and the lower one (C or D) with the middle finger. I find it much easier to tuck my index finger under the middle one, and use the index to play the lower note. Is there a reason why that is not the preferred method by most of the authors? Do any of you more experienced players use the Butler fingering?

[Ransom]

The reason it's easier for me to tuck my second finger behind is that my hands come at the concertina from an angle above horizontal. If your forearm is level with the rows of the buttons, then it'll be easier to tuck your first finger back; but if your elbow is up above the concertina, the second finger naturally falls a bit behind the first. Doesn't it?

 

So I guess decide how you want to hold the concertina, and then you can decide your fingering based on that. Also, there's something to be said for mastering both methods, and being able to choose between them.

[Chris Drinkwater]

I am not familiar with the fingering methods recommended in the tutor books you mention, so I can't comment on the different approaches by the authors and their reasons for them. However, when I began to learn the EC some years ago, I was told to use the following fingering method: with the thumb positioned through the thumbstrap and the little finger under the finger rest to provide additional support, that leaves three fingers on each hand to press the buttons. There are 4 rows of buttons, with middle two rows being the most frequently used, when playing tunes in the more common keys of A, C, D and G, as played in sessions. I was taught to use my first finger to play any notes in the first two rows, nearest the thumbstrap, the middle finger to play all the notes in row three and the third or ring finger, to play any notes in row four, the row with sharps in it. Exceptions to this rule being to use another finger to play a repeated note, or crossing fingers to play a different note in the same row to make a chord, for example. And having mastered this fingering method, which seems quite logical and sensible to me, I use it all the time, regardless of how far up or down the rows of buttons my fingers need to travel to play the required notes. Having said that, I guess other EC players may use slightly differing fingering techniques sometimes, because they find it easier, due to differences in the size of their hands or length of their fingers, or the position in which they hold their instrument, for example, to reach a required note. My answer would be to use the most recommended fingering method (I doubt you can go wrong following Alistair Anderson's technique), and see how you get on with as you progress. It is better to learn an essentially correct or preferred method of holding and fingering an instrument right from the start. You can always vary it later when you become more accomplished, to suit your playing needs and style.

 

Edited to correct an error in my description of fingering.

 

Chris

Edited January 23, 2011 by Chris Drinkwater

[fernando]

Fingering with the English Concertina! goooood!

 

It's a bit difficult for me to understand what people say about the fingering when they explain it by writting... I would love to meet you guys and have a talk over this...

 

But I will try to explain mine as better as I can:

 

As you may know, the English system is the system of the "triangules".

 

I never use the pinkies. The thumb always in the thumb rest. Well, for the other three fingers, I try to put them in each button of the "triangule".

[Chris Drinkwater]

Fingering with the English Concertina! goooood!

 

It's a bit difficult for me to understand what people say about the fingering when they explain it by writting... I would love to meet you guys and have a talk over this...

 

I am surprised, Fernando, given your good command of English, that you have difficulty understanding explanations in writing. And, yes, perhaps you could travel to England sometime to come to a Folk Festival to which some Concertina.net members who play the English system, are also attending. And then we can all swap notes, so to speak, about our playing.

 

 

But I will try to explain mine as better as I can:

 

As you may know, the English system is the system of the "triangules".

 

I never use the pinkies. The thumb always in the thumb rest. Well, for the other three fingers, I try to put them in each button of the "triangule".

 

I understand what you mean by the system of "triangules", as you put it. Using, or placing 3 fingers on separate buttons in different rows, at once, on one end of an EC concertina, seems to resemble a triangle. To sum up more succinctly what I was saying in my earlier post, is that each row on an EC, normally has one particularly finger dedicated to it, the general exception being the first two rows nearest the thumb strap, which use the first finger to cover those two rows. I hope this makes sense.

 

Chris

[fernando]

Fingering with the English Concertina! goooood!

 

It's a bit difficult for me to understand what people say about the fingering when they explain it by writting... I would love to meet you guys and have a talk over this...

 

I am surprised, Fernando, given your good command of English, that you have difficulty understanding explanations in writing. And, yes, perhaps you could travel to England sometime to come to a Folk Festival to which some Concertina.net members who play the English system, are also attending. And then we can all swap notes, so to speak, about our playing.

 

 

But I will try to explain mine as better as I can:

 

As you may know, the English system is the system of the "triangules".

 

I never use the pinkies. The thumb always in the thumb rest. Well, for the other three fingers, I try to put them in each button of the "triangule".

 

I understand what you mean by the system of "triangules", as you put it. Using, or placing 3 fingers on separate buttons in different rows, at once, on one end of an EC concertina, seems to resemble a triangle. To sum up more succinctly what I was saying in my earlier post, is that each row on an EC, normally has one particularly finger dedicated to it, the general exception being the first two rows nearest the thumb strap, which use the first finger to cover those two rows. I hope this makes sense.

 

Chris

 

I understand what you mean Chris, I do many times what you are saying. But many times I use two fingers for the same row, because it is the side of the so called "triangule". Many times I find when I'm playing that there are in the melody two consecutive notes, one just after the other, that are in the same row.

 

And one day yes, I will go to a festival in England, because here in Ireland I've never met another English concertina player

[Guest Martin Gibson]

Northumbrian Pipe Tunes in my humble opinion are suited to same finger for one row for jumps of a 5TH.

[Larry Stout]

Most of the time I use the same finger for both notes, but when I do use two fingers I'd use the middle finger for the higher note because the middle finger is longer.

[John Wild]

I was taught to use my first finger to play any notes in the first two rows, nearest the thumbstrap, the middle finger to play all the notes in row three and the index finger, to play any notes in row four, the row with sharps in it.

Chris

 

could you clarify your finger definitions? for me the first finger and the index finger mean the same. then there is the middle finger and the third finger, also known as the ring finger.

 

regards

 

John

[Chris Drinkwater]

I was taught to use my first finger to play any notes in the first two rows, nearest the thumbstrap, the middle finger to play all the notes in row three and the index finger, to play any notes in row four, the row with sharps in it.

Chris

 

could you clarify your finger definitions? for me the first finger and the index finger mean the same. then there is the middle finger and the third finger, also known as the ring finger.

 

regards

 

John

 

A well-spotted error John. For index finger, read third or ring finger, of course. I am surprised no one else spotted it. I will amend my post to make sense.

 

Chris

[Mary B]

The reason it's easier for me to tuck my second finger behind is that my hands come at the concertina from an angle above horizontal. If your forearm is level with the rows of the buttons, then it'll be easier to tuck your first finger back; but if your elbow is up above the concertina, the second finger naturally falls a bit behind the first. Doesn't it?

 

So I guess decide how you want to hold the concertina, and then you can decide your fingering based on that. Also, there's something to be said for mastering both methods, and being able to choose between them.

 

I hold my concertina on my lap with my feet propped on a big book so my forearms are level with the buttons. That may be why tucking the first finger back is easier. However, I will try to master both methods. I am sure there will be situations where the one I find difficult now will be useful.

[JimLucas]

...I will try to master both methods.

Good.

Versatility is a virtue.

It can also be a great help -- even necessary -- as you start to learn more complex tunes and arrangements.

 

I am sure there will be situations where the one I find difficult now will be useful.

As an example, let me suggest the jig Ten Penny Bit, in A-some-mode-or-other (one sharp). I try not to use the same finger for two notes in succession, so on the repeated A's I use two different fingers. As a result, my fingering for the e-A-A e-A-A of the first measure (also elsewhere in the tune) is either i-m-i m-i-m or m-i-m i-m-i (i = index; m = middle). Either way, I'm starting one triplet with the index finger above and the other one with the middle finger above.

[Guest Martin Gibson]

Jim, god advice.

Tenpenny Bit in A mode, tut tut tut :lol:well if it was A Dorian, it would have flattened third and flattened 7, if it was A mixolydian it would have c# and g natural, or just flattened 7th.

Can we be more specific, is it in A Dorian?

[Chris Drinkwater]

Jim, god advice.

 

I didn't know Jim was a god. But perhaps to many on C.net, his postings and advice may seem to emanate from one such deity!

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

Jim, god advice.

I didn't know Jim was a god. But perhaps to many on C.net, his postings and advice may seem to emanate from one such deity!

Oh, I thought he was just politely inserting a bit of my local language, Danish:

English "good" is "god" in Danish, while English "god" is "gud" in Danish.

[JimLucas]

Tenpenny Bit in A mode....

Can we be more specific, is it in A Dorian?

Be more specific, if you like.

I admit that using the Greek names for the different scales can be a convenient way to communicate that information... or would be, if more people were familiar with them. But I've never felt that the names themselves were of great importance, and the only one I can ever remember is the mixolydian.

 

However, I have just looked it up, and Ten Penny Bit is indeed in the Dorian mode.

(Rather more common than the De Lorean.

)

[Guest Martin Gibson]

I prefer imm imm for Tenpenny bit, Jims advice is good, there are several ways to skin a cat, and no right way.

[Henrik Müller]

Hi, Mary -

 

I think you have to look at fingering with a slightly wider scope:

 

If you look at the fingering of a fifth jump in isolation, you may find that it's easier for you to pull the index under the middle, but in the larger picture, i.e. what has happened before the first note and what will happen after the second, will almost always decide for you.

 

/Henrik