Holding The Anglo Concertina

[Peter Cooper]

I was watching a young group of competitors at the Irish flagh (spelling?) and during the judging the adjudicator said that as 20 % of the marks were for technique those who held the concertina with the bellows on their knee should reconsider as holding one end on the knee with the other in the air gave more freedom to create expression, and they should take this informastion back to their teachers.

My opinion is that this sounds like unproven theory and predudice. heaven forbid that folk music should ever produce a collection of clones all doing the same thing. Also as I could hear no benefit amongst those who chose to play in this manner I can't see the argument. This method creates greater tension in the arms. Any comments?

 

Peter

[A.D. Homan]

I was watching a young group of competitors at the Irish flagh (spelling?) and during the judging the adjudicator said that as 20 % of the marks were for technique those who held the concertina with the bellows on their knee should reconsider as holding one end on the knee with the other in the air gave more freedom to create expression, and they should take this informastion back to their teachers.

 

I've never been to a fleadh but have often wondered about the standards for the judging. Are there any guidelines published anywhere for specific instruments? Or is it that players are expected to have a teacher who has enough experience with fleadh-judging to give you pointers?

 

I'm also curious about tune choices -- what were your observations?

 

The suggestion that you heard the judge make does seem like an enforced idiosyncrasy! It's a shame that appearance and observed technique are judged when it is the end result -- the sound and feel of the tune -- that should matter most.

Some of the finest fiddlers I've ever heard, for instance, display highly unusual ways of holding the instrument and bow, and their fingering is also certainly not standard. (Thank God!) Recently I met a star one-row accordion player who confessed to me that he had only just begun -- occasionally -- to use his little finger on his right hand.

 

Andy

[caj]

I was watching a young group of competitors at the Irish flagh (spelling?) and during the judging the adjudicator said that as 20 % of the marks were for technique those who held the concertina with the bellows on their knee should reconsider as holding one end on the knee with the other in the air gave more freedom to create expression, and they should take this informastion back to their teachers.

Physics tells us that playing on the knee is bad, because the friction from the bellows against your pant leg results in energy being lost in the form of heat. This in turn creates convection patterns in the air around the concertina, which can result in a tornado forming around your chair, hurling you into a telephone pole and thus possibly interfering with your ability to play expressively.

 

Look out, here come the ninja smileys:

 

Seriously, I think that's an awful thing for a judge to say. There is no single accepted way to hold the box, and even among the best players you'll find some with the bellows square on the knee (John Williams, for instance, who advocates this style of playing in his videotape!) As far as I know, there is no real evidence that your knee interferes with the ability to play expressively---all we really know for certain is that it can wear out the bellows.

 

After all, this is traditional music. You shouldn't penalize people for playing the way their parents and grandparents played, unless there is something substantially and concretely bad about one's form. If the judge feels that this interferes with the ability to play expressively, maybe the judge should just not look, and judge the contestants based on how the music sounds.

 

Caj

[JimLucas]

caj: Physics tells us that playing on the knee is bad, because the friction from the bellows against your pant leg results in energy being lost in the form of heat.

 

JIM: Physics doesn't tell us that; you just did. In fact, many folks play with *one end* *fixed* on the knee (or thigh, or whatever). Playing with the bellows *across* the knee/leg is recommended only if your pants need pressing.

 

caj: This in turn creates convection patterns in the air around the concertina, which can result in a tornado forming around your chair, hurling you into a telephone pole and thus possibly interfering with your ability to play expressively.

 

JIM: Sounds like you need some lessons in concertinaikido. You need to learn to turn the tornado's force to your own advantage, so that only small adjustments on your part can result in intense expressiveness.

 

caj: Seriously, I think that's an awful thing for a judge to say. There is no single accepted way to hold the box, and even among the best players you'll find some with the bellows square on the knee (John Williams, for instance, who advocates this style of playing in his videotape!) As far as I know, there is no real evidence that your knee interferes with the ability to play expressively---all we really know for certain is that it can wear out the bellows.

 

JIM: I really should get the John Williams video. I didn't know he advocated holding the *bellows* on the knee. Many players advocate holding *one end* on the knee, which is quite a different thing.

 

caj: You shouldn't penalize people..., unless there is something substantially and concretely bad about one's form.

 

JIM: How can there possibly be anything truly bad about one's form if it results in champion quality music?

 

caj: If the judge feels that this interferes with the ability to play expressively, maybe the judge should just not look, and judge the contestants based on how the music sounds.

 

JIM: It makes me wonder if the judges are themselves concertina players? Being so dogmatic as to *assume* that playing with the instrument suspended in the air improves expression is bigotry, not music. *I* personally prefer playing that way -- even with my contrabass English -- and I feel it does help *me*, but I also know that there are other for whom that is definitely not the case, and who play quite expressively (sometimes in ways I still haven't learned) with one end held fixed on their leg.

[geoffwright]

Just to set things off, I started a poll on this.

I hold one end against the knee. Most Irish players seem to hold against or over knee. Other players (notably Morris or singers) usually stand up to play, which I suspect you couldn't do if you wanted to play Irish.

So there we have the two distinct styles (disregarding people who hang it around the neck).

[Frank Edgley]

Peter: "I was watching a young group of competitors at the Irish flagh (spelling?) and during the judging the adjudicator said that as 20 % of the marks were for technique those who held the concertina with the bellows on their knee should reconsider as holding one end on the knee with the other in the air gave more freedom to create expression, and they should take this informastion back to their teachers."

 

Reply: Too bad I didn't realise there was a fellow "CONCERTINA>NET" subcriber there! I would have said hello. I heard the judge say that as well. My take on the comment was that he was responding to his perception that certain players lacked something in terms of expression etc. and this comment was his opinion as to why, and how this deficit could be improved. I'm pretty sure that he did not deduct marks because of holding the bellows across the knee, but the lack of expression, dynamics etc. he noted with players he saw playing across the knee, instead of resting one end on the knee. More of a suggestion to improve rather than a source of deductions.

 

PETER: My opinion is that this sounds like unproven theory and predudice. heaven forbid that folk music should ever produce a collection of clones all doing the same thing.

 

Reply: True, it is his theory, but since he is a very experienced teacher and respected adjudicator at the very highest level I suspect that, at this high level of performance, this is what he has found works for him and may well be the technique that is used by the most successful players.

I agree with your statement that trad or folk music techniques should not set down "in stone" as they are in classical music or highland bagpipe competition playing, but I don't think that's what's happening here. However, I do lament the trend of young players to abandon regional styles of concertina playing in favour of more modern styles of playing. These modern styles are often more impressive, technically, and as such, often result in a prize, if executed well. However, you wouldn't have heard then at a fleadh 40 or 50 years ago, or in sessions dances etc. So much for preserving tradional styles of the music!

[JimLucas]

Other players (notably Morris or singers) usually stand up to play, which I suspect you couldn't do if you wanted to play Irish.

 

I don't see why not. Or why it should be any more difficult to play Irish than Morris.... even in one position or another.