Wheatstone 48 EC

[Peter Laban]

Just as a comment on the Tom Keane tune: the tune is usually played with a different second part, from the playing of John Kelly.

 

As coincidence would have it the tune came up last Saturdaynight during a lovely night of music with Tommy Keane (not the one of the tune name) Jaqui McCarthy who dropped into my local unexpectedly.

 

dggf dedc Bcde =f3 e dggf dedc BGAF G2

Edited January 16, 2011 by Peter Laban

[fernando]

Just as a comment on the Tom Keane tune: the tune is usually played with a different second part, from the playing of John Kelly.

 

As coincidence would have it the tune came up last Saturdaynight during a lovely night of music with Tommy Keane (not the one of the tune name) Jaqui McCarthy who dropped into my local unexpectedly.

 

Thanks Peter for the comment! do you have a name for the tune? maybe the one you say it is not the same tune, wouldn't be the first time I see tho tunes with the same first part... or maybe what you mean is the different last notes of the second time I play the second part, I heard people playing the two rounds of the second part exactly the same.

 

I know this tune is in one of Michael McGoldrick cd's, the one called Aurora, he names it Frankie's. He explains that he put this name because it was Frankie Gavin who tought him the tune, and Frankie didn't have a name for it. I made Noel Hill listen this tune from my mobile as I had it recorded, he recognised it and he told me that it was him who taught the tune to Frankie Gavin.

 

I think the name of this tune looks like to be completely lost. Nobody seems to remember it.

 

But the key of the tune is the thing I'm really interested in, in the session.org it says it is in ADorian. Is this true? people told me that this tune is in major but with a variation in the first part, could that be?

[Peter Laban]

One Tom Keane they give on thesession here is pretty much a straightforward lower version of the Monaghan Twig. The version I have in mind is the one that John Kelly played, which is on his Topic recording, track 4. That's the one I would come across most.

 

Another version on the session seems to me based on misplaced barlines or a misunderstanding of the tune (i.e. |: edcA ABcd | edcA AFG2 |edcA ... instead of ed|cAAB cded|cAAF G and it's the Monaghan Twig again there) and the third Tom Keane they have is just a straightforward Scotch Mary, which is another distant cousin, twice removed.

 

Likely there are other variants that elude me early on the Sunday morning.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Peter Laban

[Paul Groff]

Hi Peter,

 

I'm entirely with you on Tom Keane's reel. I have listened a lot to the late John Kelly's music and tried to play his settings for many years. In the past few years I haven't played much concertina, but living near James Kelly and his daughter, and meeting John Kelly Jr. and his family on their visits here, I have had a chance to learn more about John sr's music. I know Jackie McCarthy also has been inspired by his music, and Shay Fogarty on this site has mentioned some other nice concertina players influenced by John Kelly, so maybe some of them would chime in to add to the discussion -- or maybe to correct me!

 

But my thoughts FWTW...

 

John Kelly sr. played concertina in a few different styles and different modes on the instrument. Some of the settings he probably learned very early on are up and down the middle row of a 3-row anglo (would have been the outside, lower-keyed, row of a 2-row german concertina). Some cross the middle and inside rows of a 3-row anglo (or both rows of a 2-row german concertina). I never heard or saw John use a button from the outside row of a 3 row concertina, but I think he probably did occasionally.

 

John's tunes played up and down the middle row of a 3-row concertina (keys of C major, or D dorian, on a C/G instrument) obviously could be played in very similar settings by 1 -row melodeon players. But some of the tunes he played in the key of G (but often in modes that included an F natural) on a C/G concertina are also closely related to melodeon settings that were being played in the early 20th century.

 

Tunes like Eddie Dunn's reel (a version of the bag of spuds) cross the rows so the seventh note of the scale (F in the key of G) can be played sometimes major (F#) and other times minor (F natural). So those settings are what some folks call "inflected." It's really just a simplification of the way a singer or fiddler or piper or flute player might color those notes, but that key on a 2-row concertina (the key of G on a C/G instrument, or F on a Bb/F, etc) is one of the most versatile and expressive because of those alternate notes available for the seventh note of the scale.

 

If you didn't use that sharp seventh note (F# in the key of G), these settings could be played all on one row of a concertina, and then they would be very very similar to the versions of these tunes played by melodeon players.

 

For Eddie Dunn's reel, compare the settings of the Bag of Potatoes by melodeon players P. J. Conlon or William Sullivan (in the key of A mixolydian on a 1-row box in D).

 

And for Tom Keane's reel, compare the wonderful recording of Scotch Mary (paired with a great gutsy version of Green Groves of Erin) by Joe Flanagan (re-released on the Topic cd, "Irish Dance Music," edited by Reg Hall).

 

Just more points of reference, not to diminish in any way the wonderful way the great John Kelly made music with these tunes, using 2 rows of a concertina to the fullest!

 

PG

Edited January 16, 2011 by Paul Groff

[Peter Laban]

Hi Paul, long time..

 

I heard John sr quite a bit during the eighties and we get John Jr and his family around here a good bit.

 

 

 

Aoife below is carrying the concertina for that side of the family although she learned the concertina from Mick O Connor's daughter rather than her grandfather. My son had some lessons from her years ago.

 

 

(I don't have a pic of Leah on-line that I can easily link too)

 

 

You may not be aware they have been organising a small John Kelly weekend in Kilbaha, usually featuring as many Kellys for a concert as they can bring together, along with friends and people connected to JK's music. I am not sure now but I think it's usually around the May or June bankholiday weekend.

 

How's that for thread drift?

Edited January 16, 2011 by Peter Laban

[Wolf Molkentin]

There is something special about this key... I know I'm playing it in F. And looks like F Major, but I'm not sure, there are notes that don't belong to F Major...

In case your question is still open: Sounds like F Mixolydian, which has just one note differing from the Major (or "Ionian") scale/mode: the minor seventh, i.e.: Eb (playing in G Mixolydian would thus need no flats or sharps at all, just the natural notes = white keys or EC middle rows).

 

edited to say: sorry, just missed page 2...

Edited September 20, 2011 by blue eyed sailor

[fernando]

There is something special about this key... I know I'm playing it in F. And looks like F Major, but I'm not sure, there are notes that don't belong to F Major...

In case your question is still open: Sounds like F Mixolydian, which has just one note differing from the Major (or "Ionian") scale/mode: the minor seventh, i.e.: Eb (playing in G Mixolydian would thus need no flats or sharps at all, just the natural notes = white keys or EC middle rows).

 

edited to say: sorry, just missed page 2...

 

Thanks! that is nice thing to know! to know the keys is sometimes so difficult...