Song v Tune

[SteveS]

Is it me or are there others who get confused over the way the terms 'song' and 'tune' are used?

It's seems to becoming common to use the word 'song' to mean 'tune' as well a musical composition with words and music.

I've heard native English speakers use 'song' for 'tune'.

Edited December 14, 2010 by SteveS

[PeterT]

I think that you'll find it to be a "pond" thing, in terms of origin.

[Jody Kruskal]

I think that you'll find it to be a "pond" thing, in terms of origin.

Pond thing. Shucks, I believe that the use of "song" meaning any melody sung or played is a Southern US usage that is regional but spreading.

[Mikefule]

Well, as a native English speaker from England, near Europe... I cannot recall anyone ever referring to a tune as a song, or vice versa. A tune is a distinct melody, with or without harmonic accompaniment. A song is a set of words set to music. No words, no song.

 

I suppose it is not impossible that if a tune were to be known primarily as the melody of a well known song, someone may refer to the tune itself as a song, but I doubt it.

[Boney]

This has come up here before. Most Irish musicians I've met (the west coast of the US) won't use the word "song" to mean tune, but other various tune-players sometimes will. Especially if they're younger. I wouldn't be surprised if digital music distribution has made this more common. MP3 player ads tend to talk about how many "songs" their device will hold, for example.

[Paul Read]

There definitely is confusion here is Canada. You can hear both the correct and the North American usage here.

[cboody]

Wait a minute! "correct and the North American usage?" What difference are you talking about? Did I just misread things? It seems to me that everyone was agreeing that "song" implied words and sung and "tune" melody without words. As someone said "No Words, No song." Where was there some other definitions implied? I suppose maybe, being American, I am reacting to the "correct vs. American" remark. But truly I want to understand. I've heard everyone from bluegrassers to old-timey to Irish Trad players gently correct folks to make sure they don't embarrass themselves by calling "tunes" songs. I've never been across the pond, so I don't know about there. Can someone help me understand why I'm confused about this discussion???

 

Thanks!!

[malcolm clapp]

I've never actually believed that American's don't understand irony...till now!

[Leo]

I'm confused too. No words, no song?

 

So this would be a sune:

It's in Russian. The subtitles don't help.

 

And this would be a tong:

It's in English

 

I've used the terms interchangeably and nobody notices.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Woody]

I've never actually believed that American's don't understand irony...till now!

Like "goldy" or "bronzy" only it's made out of Iron????

Edited December 15, 2010 by Woody

[michael sam wild]

My hip hop and rap loving sons call tunes songs.

[david_boveri]

well, i live in the chicagoland area. we have never differentiated between songs and tunes in our day to day language. the only people i have ever known that make this differentiation have been irish musicians... my grandparents stressed to me when i was a child that i never call a tune a song, and vice versa. i still make the mistake sometimes, because no one i know outside of irish music gets upset when you call a tune a song.

 

it is interesting to hear that other people's vernacular usage maintains this distinction.... i thought it was just an irish thing.

 

to help myself remember it, i always used to say that "songs are sung" or "sing a song." then i wonder, do you "tin a tune?" or perhaps "tun a tune?" :-P perhaps we will never know...

[spindizzy]

well, i live in the chicagoland area. we have never differentiated between songs and tunes in our day to day language. the only people i have ever known that make this differentiation have been irish musicians... my grandparents stressed to me when i was a child that i never call a tune a song, and vice versa. i still make the mistake sometimes, because no one i know outside of irish music gets upset when you call a tune a song.

 

it is interesting to hear that other people's vernacular usage maintains this distinction.... i thought it was just an irish thing.

 

to help myself remember it, i always used to say that "songs are sung" or "sing a song." then i wonder, do you "tin a tune?" or perhaps "tun a tune?" :-P perhaps we will never know...

 

Maybe we should have a poll :-)

I've always thought of a song as something you sing and a tune as played.

(And a song could have several different tunes to sing it to)

 

Maybe it's a distinction that musicians make and non-musicians don't .. it doesn't look from replies to be particularly regional.

It doesn't worry me enough to correct people - but I suppose that I started this off by asking someone on the other thread if they REALLY wanted a song - just trying find out, since many EC players use the concertina for song accompianment

Edited December 15, 2010 by spindizzy

[Jody Kruskal]

Yes, it's a lamentable situation and I agree that the global reach of itunes is in part to blame.

 

In my mind (and ear) a tune is a melody, either sung or played by instruments. It's a series of notes with pitches, rhythm and implied chords. By contrast, a song must be sung by a voice and usually has lyrics. A song has a has a tune, sure, but it is always sung. Every song has a tune, but it does not make sense to say that a tune has a song.

 

But hey... I'm of a certain generation and language changes fast, for better or worse. You can rail against it but it's no use. Language is spoken by the ignorant as well as the educated and in the world of music there are way lots more ignorant consumers than educated practitioners.

 

Really, it does not bother me so much, because to make great music, instrumentalists often think of their instruments as a voice, with all that vocal richness implies. So, playing a song on my instrument kind of makes sense to me.

[Dirge]

 

In my mind (and ear) a tune is a melody, either sung or played by instruments. It's a series of notes with pitches, rhythm and implied chords. By contrast, a song must be sung by a voice and usually has lyrics. A song has a has a tune, sure, but it is always sung. Every song has a tune, but it does not make sense to say that a tune has a song.

 

 

Completely reasonable and clear. Furthermore you can tell the word 'song' is derived from the word 'sing'.

 

Local dialect or professional nerds writing computer programs have nothing to do with the basic 'rightness' of it.

[RatFace]

professional nerds writing computer programs have nothing to do with the basic 'rightness' of it.

 

Was there any particular reason for insulting/stereotyping professional computer programmers?

[RAc]

professional nerds writing computer programs have nothing to do with the basic 'rightness' of it.

 

Was there any particular reason for insulting/stereotyping professional computer programmers?

 

envy, I take it (being a computer nerd, I do appreciate being able to make a living on what I love to do ) Anyways: Back to the issue at hand:

 

Musical lingo changes. For example (a pet peeve of mine): A ballad used to be a sung story. In today's understanding, a ballad is pretty much anything that is a. sung and b. contains traces of acoustic music (iow, is "less than rock"). Subtle distinction for some but a quite radical different way to look at things. 90% of what is labelled a "ballad" these days is as insulting to the story-loving mind as is everything else you hear on mainstream radio.

 

For years I've tried to evangelize folks in my limited circle of influence not to obfuscate the term "ballad," but it's of no use. A term is what it is being used as, the rest is academic...

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ruediger R. Asche

[michael sam wild]

As Cliff Richard sang 'Ballads and calypsos got nothing on a real country music that just drives along'

 

Ballads seemed to become Doris Day and Pat Boone numbers in the 50s and used as a 'file under' title