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Jeffries Scam On Ebay


Stephen Chambers
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Jim, It's becoming harder and harder to understand your point. You seem to be saying the exact same thing I said originally, that I *do* feel that we, as a community, have a moral obligation to protect each other, and to try and protect the helpless (stupid *or* ignorant). Check my earliest posts. That's what I said!!??

Sounds like maybe I misunderstood you.

 

I'm too tired at the moment to go back and check, so I'll simply apologize and let it rest. Especially if we're really in agreement, I don't want to argue. :)

The point at which you claim that my viewpoint is 'ridiculous' is the point at which I stop taking your viewpoint as seriously as I usually do.

That comment was directed specifically and only at the sentence I quoted just before, not at anything else you said. I meant to suggest that your beliefs should not be easily changed. Can we let that rest, too?

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For interest,

 

Just before Easter every computerised high-level sewing machine (Husqvarna, Bernina, Pfaff etc) offered on Ebay was suspected by the local embroidery and quilting community to be fraudulent. Confidence in this sector of eBay is very low and as a result there are very few machines currently offered at present as bidders remain deeply sceptical. Certainly prices achieved by genuine sellers are very low in comparison to last year. I reached a figure of 70% by the simple expedient of looking back through my saved records and counting over a 2:1 ratio suspected fraud to suspected genuine sale.

 

This is what a scam sewing machine sale looks like press here

 

This machine should sell for in excess of 3500 pounds new. There are three completed suspected scam sales showing on Ebay for 850, 330 and 310 pounds respectively. The knock-on effect of this is that this machine and others like it have had their resale values destroyed on eBay and in other markets.

 

I'm not suggesting that the resale market for concertinas would be affected in the same way, but I'm sure that the market could be distorted without effective control and the ensuing loss of confidence. I've never been convinced by the argument that eBay is a totally free market and that it should be allowed to operate as such. It seems to me that it is frequently manipulated by others and that as regular users and observers of the system we can demand that it is effectively regulated to prevent the unwary or the unwise being ripped off. If that demand is not met then I feel that we should take such action as we see necessary. It took our embroidery group two months to obtain the contact form to report such scams and our emails are frequently unanswered even when we group together and bombard eBay with complaints. It doesn't raise your confidence much.

 

Regards

 

Jill

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Sandy,

 

The auction I mentioned was over a year ago.

 

I would have had no complaint if, at that time, ebay had responded as you say they did recently. The point is that, in an auction that "completes," the high bidder "wins" the auction, the underbidder (or the reserve) effectively sets the price level, and thus an insincere underbidder (who bids up the auction and then retracts) can unfairly raise the winning bid price if all his/her bids are not removed. This did not occur in the auction I mentioned, despite my repeated complaints. Possibly there has been a policy change; if so, that may be evidence of responsiveness (if not to me as an individual) on the part of ebay.

 

Paul

Edited by Paul Groff
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Paul, perhaps I was not clear (once again ;-). I'm not implying that ebay made a policy change, although I hope they did. The fact that all bids by the high bidder disappeared may have been because the seller rejected the earlier bids after the high bidder withdrew his final bid. I'm not sure what actually happened.

 

Jill, I would think there would be any number of ways to determine if the three 'suspected scam' machines are actually scams, at least after the fact. And if they are actual scams I can't see any way that that would affect the resale value of legitimate items???

 

Jim, I'm certainly willing to 'let it rest', and to continue to consider your opinions and viewpoints as one of the primary reasons to visit this discussion group on a daily basis. All is well that ends well.

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And if they are actual scams I can't see any way that that would affect the resale value of legitimate items???

It would certainly affect the selling price of legitimate items if fewer people were willing to place bids for fear of all the scams.

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That might be correct, but only if you believe that experienced (careful, savvy, street smart) bidders are being scared away. I don't believe that is the case. That is one of the the reasons I keep responding to this thread. The 'chicken little' alarmism is unfounded.

 

Jill's claim that 70% of high end sewing machine auction items were suspected scams didn't ring true when I first read her post but I didn't want to say anything in response before investigating for myself. I did a search for several of the items she mentioned and found about 80 listings. About half of those were for sewing machines and many of those for high end machines (about $1000 and above). I found 1 item that I am sure is a scam (zero feedback, member since June 15, etc.) I found another item that seems a bit suspicious only because of low feedback (6 transactions, all positive, but only 2 as a seller and those 2 for very low priced items) I'd be wary of that item without more contact with the seller. All other items were clearly legitimate, sellers with very high ratings (most in the 100's and a few in the 1000's, and one above 4000) and long, visible feedback history of legitimate sales. That does not constitute a 70% potential fraud rate.

 

Thru feedback history of sellors, I found 2 items (a Viking Designer 1 ESS and a Pfaff) sold for $3450 and $3000 last month. I just don't see the alarmist concerns as well reasoned.

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The 'chicken little' alarmism is unfounded.

 

 

The thread has allowed for several opinions to be presented, and C.netters will probably continue to post warnings when the fraud is suspected in concertina-related auctions. Some of us continue to feel that the number of fraudulent sales, particularly in the concertina-related auctions, is increasing at a non-trivial rate, and that eBay's responses, and disclosures (or lack thereof), are not yet adequate. We have not only avoided insulting the intelligence of those who accidentally bid on fraudulent auctions, but we have also refrained from belittling or trivializing the opinions of those who disagree with us on this issue. You've made your point -- and some will agree with you, others will disagree. Please let it rest rather than continuing the "last-wordism" that you criticized in Jim's earlier post. There is no last word on this issue -- it is unresolved, and the difference in opinion also seems to boil down to ideological differences on the question of corporate responsibility, which is really beyond the scope of this forum -- so let's agree to disagree on this one, please.

Respectfully,

Andy

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The situation with scamming is worse than you imagine.

 

I had an ID cancelled by ebay last year and it took 4 months of increasingly angry emails to ebay fraud department to find out why. Eventually I got the explanation that my ebay ID had been Hi-jacked by someone and had been used to sell stuff fraudulently. The seller wanted my feedback rating, (100%). Apparently there is some software out there that can monitor your keyboard strokes and discover your password.

 

I now have a new ebay ID and started from scratch with a 0 feedback. To reduce the chance of this happening they recommend changing your password once a month!!!

 

Ebay wouldn't tell me what products my old ID was used for but this whole episode left a very bad taste. I guess this is not a scam ebay wants people to know about.

 

Mike

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Jim made the comment that if Jill's estimate of a 70% fraud rate were true it would be frightening, and I agree. But that's the point. The 'estimates' do not seem to be true. Real solutions to real problems are not often reached without careful assessment of the real situation.

 

I don't consider the 'attempted' fraud rate to be trivial. It is a serious matter. But responsible behavior on our part (responsible bidding and watching out for each other) is the first and best weapon to fight this trend.

 

Mike's experience is truly unfortunate, but this type of problem is not a problem that can be solved by ebay. It is a universal problem on the internet. Definitely change your password(s) as often as is convenient.

 

Signing off, as requested :-) Be Careful "out there".

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Hello Sandy

 

Many thanks for your posts. Please remember that we see only UK only listings here in England unless we request for worldwide listings so we may not be comparing like with like. I am sure you are right when you give the details that you do. My point was that suspected scammers have caused a collapse in confidence in selling and buying these machines in England through eBay. In short there's no trust in the listings.

 

If you would like to see what we see here in England for the machines I mentioned use the eBay.co.uk listings for Bernina. Moreover, a current scam machine was still listed this afternoon under Husqvarna with an appropriate response by one of our "watchers". I'd like to draw a line under this now because I don't want to spend time incessantly trying to justify my position on this. It's simply my understanding and one that I hold with a number of other professional embroiderers in my field. We take action through our own networks because it's important that we protect the naive and unwary (mostly our students) from the unprincipled as far as we are able.

 

Regards

 

Jill

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Apparently there is some software out there that can monitor your keyboard strokes and discover your password.

 

Yes there is software out there that can monitor your keystrokes, and its already in many computers and the users are unaware of it. Its part of a vast range of "spyware" some of it almost legitimate, much of it not, that I only learned about recently. Anti-virus software does not look for it because it does no direct harm to your computer, it just collects information about you.

 

Every internet user with a PC should consider using "Spybot Search & Destroy" downloadable for free from http://www.download.com/3000-8022-10122137.html

 

I was shocked at what it found on my PC.

 

Theo

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Apparently there is some software out there that can monitor your keyboard strokes and discover your password.

There certainly is, and I hope you used something to discover and delete it before you read about it here... because if they can pick up your eBay password, they can do the same with your bank account and credit card passwords. When was the last time you changed those?

 

And never use your passwords on a computer not your own. A friend's computer could be infected, and thus pass on your information. Sometimes it seems that a MS product will record and store a password even when you tell it not to. This then becomes available to a spyware infection even after you use that computer. Internet cafes and free connections at places like libraries can be even more dangerous. Not long ago there was a case of a fellow in New York City installing spyware on the "public" machines at a number of Kinko's outlets, which then relayed the keystroke information to this fellow's home computer, where he used it to raid numerous people's bank accounts. (Kinko's has supposedly since fixed their systems so that users cannot load their own software into the machines, but I would prefer to be paranoid.) This guy was really brazen, since after he was caught by the police and arraigned, he went home and did it again while he was awaiting trial.

 

By the way, changing your password won't help if there is (still) spyware on your machine, because the "spy" will see those keystrokes and from that learn your new password immediately.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Gee, looks like our friend is back in action. Have a look at this Jeffries. Seller just registered today and has no feedback, it's a 3-day auction, the price is way below actual value with no reserve, and bidders' IDs are hidden. Also, the seller is registered in the US, but the item location is given as London, UK.

 

I've sent an e-mail to eBay to ask them to look into this, since it seems awfully suspicious.

 

<_<

Steven

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Yeah, this is word-for-word the same as this earlier eBay auction:

 

eBay Concertina

 

EDIT (10:50): I've notified eBay of this detail to help support Steven's earlier report.

 

EDIT (11:20): Wow, that's fast -- it's an invalid item now! EBay seems to be getting better at closing these down.

Edited by BillErickson
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