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3D printing


SteveS
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Just read an article on 3D printing. Now that prices of 3D printers are set to fall dramatically, they could become more readily available.

 

How could this technology be applied to the concertina? Discuss.

 

My immediate thought was printing of buttons, levers, ends. And the concertina could potentially become recycleable too.

 

Fancy a Jeffries? - throw the old 'tina in the shredder and print yourself one.

 

Steve

Edited by SteveS
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I don't understand what you mean. Levers and buttons are a lot more easy to produce in the traditional way, - turning or tooling - and for the fretwork, well; laser routers are already cutting perfect fretworks.

 

I never played a Jeffries - unfortunately - but suspect that the really unique parts of the instrument are the reeds, and don't see how could they be replicated with a 3D printer.

 

Just my point of view, but to me seems like to kill mosquitoes with a cannon.

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

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I've been following the progress of 3D printing devlopment for the purposes of Railway Modelling.

 

There are many possibiliites here for making up prototype pieces to act as masters for casting in resin or low melt metals for loco and rolling stock kits as well as scenic itiems. For a component that is subject to stress I would probably go for something that would require laser cutting.

 

I'm not sure quite how the process could be applied to concertina manufacture, perhaps for decorative inlays such as the decorations on the corners of certain Wheatstone models or perhaps buttons.

 

A University based friend of mine has seen the products of a process that uses aluminium powder to asssemble objects and decribed a set of chess pieces that were embellished with interior staircases, windows etc. in pawns and rooks that were about 5cm high.

It could be that this techonology has more potential for us that the resin 3D printers.

 

Robin Madge

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I've been following the progress of 3D printing devlopment for the purposes of Railway Modelling.

 

There are many possibiliites here for making up prototype pieces to act as masters for casting in resin or low melt metals for loco and rolling stock kits as well as scenic itiems. For a component that is subject to stress I would probably go for something that would require laser cutting.

 

I'm not sure quite how the process could be applied to concertina manufacture, perhaps for decorative inlays such as the decorations on the corners of certain Wheatstone models or perhaps buttons.

 

A University based friend of mine has seen the products of a process that uses aluminium powder to asssemble objects and decribed a set of chess pieces that were embellished with interior staircases, windows etc. in pawns and rooks that were about 5cm high.

It could be that this techonology has more potential for us that the resin 3D printers.

 

Robin Madge

 

 

You might be able to print some parts such as buttons etc. Parts that can be made of plastic are

the most suitable but you will never be able to print parts such as reeds or reed shoes. You will

never be able to print a cello or a violin.

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A neighbour recently handed me a part about the size of a small fist, a very complex shape, and asked how I thought he made it. Machining it would have been possible but very time consuming. Turns out he printed it. (Just writing the word "printed" to mean this process is disturbing. Something inside me shouts "this is not right". Please someone invent a word for the process.)

 

It was immediately clear many parts for the concertina could be made this way. The end box and end design would work well, though what the effect on the tone would be I have no idea. And a concertina entirely made of plastic would probably feel and look junky. But this is early days in the "printing" process and it will not be long before substances other than plastic can be formed in this way. Its all very Star Trek, remember the replicator...

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A neighbour recently handed me a part about the size of a small fist, a very complex shape, and asked how I thought he made it. Machining it would have been possible but very time consuming. Turns out he printed it. (Just writing the word "printed" to mean this process is disturbing. Something inside me shouts "this is not right". Please someone invent a word for the process.)

 

It was immediately clear many parts for the concertina could be made this way. The end box and end design would work well, though what the effect on the tone would be I have no idea. And a concertina entirely made of plastic would probably feel and look junky. But this is early days in the "printing" process and it will not be long before substances other than plastic can be formed in this way. Its all very Star Trek, remember the replicator...

 

 

 

Powdered metals, ceramics and carbon compounds and resins could make attractive components and wait till we can bond cellulose and lignin like a tree!B)

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Powdered metals, ceramics and carbon compounds and resins could make attractive components and wait till we can bond cellulose and lignin like a tree!B)

 

Yes, but: How durable are these going to be? The old solid metal Jeffries still are among us.

I wouldn't like to sound conservative, but I don't trust new materials, I'm afraid they're going to fall apart in any moment...

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

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I'm not so sure. They're making them out of carbon fiber now.

 

http://www.luisandclark.com/

 

Don't believe any fiddler - me included - would spend $5,539.00 in that thing if they could spend that money in a real, wooden fiddle.

 

Some friends of mine developed some time ago the vpipes, sampled - not midi - electronic uilleann pipes, with drones, changing pitch... after an advice from Paddy Keenan they're going to develop regulators, too. Well, most pipers regard them as a beatiful toy, useful for to play with headphones, but not a real stage instrument...

 

The point is, I know a carbon fiber fiddle is a real - no electronic - instrument, but is the same that about pipers above: the trad. musicians are found of the real vintage 'noble' materials: wood, brass, ivory, german silver... Is difficult to try to convince any of them to play a 'plastic' thing...And even more if we take into account the amount of time a trad. muso spends 'living in the past'...

 

Just MHO.

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

Edited by Fergus_fiddler
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The cellist in my band plays a carbon fiber 5 string cello. One advantage is that it seems immune to the weather. A disadvantage is that as it warms up it goes sharp (like a whistle or recorder) rather than flat (like other strings). I'm not sure how the technology could be applied to concertinas, but there was a thread on making new ends for an aeola using carbon fiber not too long ago.

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It's a cliche that crafts persons see the work of art or craft in the raw material and cut away the materials till they reach the desired form.

 

In nature the genome activates the enzymes that synthesises the materials to build up the organism to the grand design.

 

 

Wait til we have a digital blueprint that activates the building up of a functioning Jeffries replica and a competent player to go with it!;)

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They're making them out of carbon fiber now.

 

http://www.luisandclark.com/

Don't believe any fiddler - me included - would spend $5,539.00 in that thing if they could spend that money in a real, wooden fiddle.

I believe many fiddlers -- yourself apparently excluded -- would.

There are also violinists today who prefer "fiddles" by certain contemporary makers to the legendary Stradivarius.

 

Some friends of mine developed some time ago the vpipes, sampled - not midi - electronic uilleann pipes, with drones, changing pitch... after an advice from Paddy Keenan they're going to develop regulators, too. Well, most pipers regard them as a beatiful toy, useful for to play with headphones, but not a real stage instrument...

I note that you said "most", not "all". And that is among players of an instrument that is practically -- no indignity intended -- ghettoized... í.e., limited in distribution and culturally restricted. Unlike the violin, which is used today in virtually every variation and style of classical, popular, and folk music.

 

The point is, I know a carbon fiber fiddle is a real - no electronic - instrument, but is the same that about pipers above: the trad. musicians are found of the real vintage 'noble' materials: wood, brass, ivory, german silver... Is difficult to try to convince any of them to play a 'plastic' thing...And even more if we take into account the amount of time a trad. muso spends 'living in the past'...

I doubt that they're all quite so prejudiced against innovation, especially not if the result both feels and sounds good when in use. Certainly their predecessors weren't. Aren't the uilleann pipes of today developed considerably beyond their ancestors even of Charles Wheatstone's day?

 

But people aren't all the same, not even "within" a particular "tradition". There were those who thought the electric guitar was an idea that should -- and would -- be consigned to history's scrap heap. Likewise concertinas, both English and anglo. And Michael Eskin's apps for the iPhone and iPad? I have trouble imagining that they could be even remotely like "the real thing", but after reading reports by members here, it seems clear that I need a better imagination... or at least that I should find an opportunity to try one. :)

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Jim, funny you quote all my post but the Just MHO line. It seems it has to be a forum of lads patting each others in the back. Am I allowed to desagree, please? I was only talking about MY experience & people I know around me.

 

The thing I most dislike about new materials is that they're suposedly 'enviromental friendly'. That's b*ll*cks to me. Indeed, instrument makers make the most of the materials they use. Furniture and paper industry are a lot more damaging for forests. So, the label 'enviromental friendly' is a highly hypocritical thing to me.

 

And sorry, I wouldn't touch one of those plastic fiddles even with a blarge pole.

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

 

PS: Coming back to the begining of the thread, I think that approach to build concertinas is to try to re-invent the wheel. The point is, if something works fine, why to change it?

Edited by Fergus_fiddler
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Am I allowed to desagree, please?

Of course you're allowed to disagree.

But so am I allowed to disagree with you, no?

It seems it has to be a forum of lads patting each others in the back.

I don't find it that way, at all. Neither in general nor in this particular thread.

 

Jim, funny you quote all my post but the Just MHO line.

My own purpose was to address the points you presented, not to argue about your characterization of the motivation behind your points of view.

 

But since you bring it up...

Don't believe any fiddler...
My emphasis, admittedly, but that statement strikes me as neither humble nor a matter of opinion. They have, after all, sold some of their instruments.

 

I was only talking about MY experience & people I know around me.

But you didn't say that.

What you said was far more sweeping, and that is what I responded to.

 

The thing I most dislike about new materials is that they're suposedly 'enviromental friendly'.

 

That's b*ll*cks to me. Indeed, instrument makers make the most of the materials they use. Furniture and paper industry are a lot more damaging for forests. So, the label 'enviromental friendly' is a highly hypocritical thing to me.

Fair enough, but

  • In my experience, that's not the only argument used to promote carbon fiber or other "new materials".
  • It is an issue that was not even mentioned by you in your earlier post, nor by anyone else in this thread.

So if you want to introduce that as a new element in this general discussion, fine, but if you're trying to present it as a counter argument to my own comments, then I'll give you bullocks to your "b*ll*cks".

 

And sorry, I wouldn't touch one of those plastic fiddles even with a blarge pole.

Or with one of these, either, I'll bet. ;)

And you're perfectly entitled to your choice.

 

Myself, I'd like to at least try one before forming an opinion... if I could play the fiddle, that is. :(

 

PS: Coming back to the begining of the thread, I think that approach to build concertinas is to try to re-invent the wheel. The point is, if something works fine, why to change it?

My own point of view differs:

Two good reasons for trying to reinvent the wheel:

  • You just might come up with a better wheel.
  • But if not, you'll have a much better appreciation of why the original was such a good design.

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This is all getting a little serious.

Can we pull the thread back to the original theme?

I was anticipating some discourse with wild & whacky ideas on how 3D printing technology could be applied to the concertina.

Thinking caps on then.....

Edited by SteveS
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I've been following the progress of 3D printing devlopment for the purposes of Railway Modelling.

 

There are many possibiliites here for making up prototype pieces to act as masters for casting in resin or low melt metals for loco and rolling stock kits as well as scenic items.

 

 

Well, how about some OO gauge figures of Morris dancers, including, amongst the musicians, at least one concertina player, standing on the upward platform, waiting for a train to take them to their next place of display? :)

 

Chris

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