Warping

[Alan Day]

Having had major problems with wood warping that is not associated with concertina repair,I just wondered if the repairers amongst you take any precautions for reed pan warping when you are in the process of reed retuning. As warping can take place overnight with differences in temperature, dampness etc do you screw it back into the concertina or just leave it on your workbench until the tuning is finished ? As many of you know ,wood warping is a major problem, it is almost impossible to get a warp out once it forms and no matter how much clamping down ,or wetting and then clamping , it always seems to spring back to it's warped state.

Al

[Frank Edgley]

Having had major problems with wood warping that is not associated with concertina repair,I just wondered if the repairers amongst you take any precautions for reed pan warping when you are in the process of reed retuning. As warping can take place overnight with differences in temperature, dampness etc do you screw it back into the concertina or just leave it on your workbench until the tuning is finished ? As many of you know ,wood warping is a major problem, it is almost impossible to get a warp out once it forms and no matter how much clamping down ,or wetting and then clamping , it always seems to spring back to it's warped state.

Al

I had a simple frame that I used to hold the reedpan flat if I were not going to reassemble the concertina over night. Lachenals had/have this problem. Not so much with Jeffries.

[Alan Day]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

[Paul Read]

I always put them back together or clamp them down when leaving mid-job.

[Dave Prebble]

Eh Up Alan,

 

I put the pans back in the box whenever possible and bolt up.

 

When I'm working on the bellows and the pans and ends will be off for some time, they are clamped up and the whole kit and kaboodle put in a sealed poly bag in a cool bottom drawer.

 

when a pan has to be on the bench, I keep it off the impervious worktop surface by standing it on a low cylinder cut from a sturdy cardboard roll. This helps keep the humidity the same on both sides of the pan. Do remember to keep them out of the sun or they can curl up like crisps in a very short time.

 

The action board/endframe assemblies are just as liable to warp so look after them as well.

 

A lot of pans already have a degree of warp in them so when I start work on a box, I always put the pan flat on the bench and give it the 'rock test' If there is any rock I shave a sliver of wood till it just fits under the 'gap'. This way I can check as I go on, whether any further movement is taking place. Just occasionaly there is, and I have to put the job aside to a drier and/or cooler day.

 

looking forward to you playing Springtime in Battersea on it next time at Bradfield

 

be good and be lucky

 

Dave

[Dirge]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

[Alan Day]

Eh Up Alan,

 

I put the pans back in the box whenever possible and bolt up.

 

When I'm working on the bellows and the pans and ends will be off for some time, they are clamped up and the whole kit and kaboodle put in a sealed poly bag in a cool bottom drawer.

 

when a pan has to be on the bench, I keep it off the impervious worktop surface by standing it on a low cylinder cut from a sturdy cardboard roll. This helps keep the humidity the same on both sides of the pan. Do remember to keep them out of the sun or they can curl up like crisps in a very short time.

 

The action board/endframe assemblies are just as liable to warp so look after them as well.

 

A lot of pans already have a degree of warp in them so when I start work on a box, I always put the pan flat on the bench and give it the 'rock test' If there is any rock I shave a sliver of wood till it just fits under the 'gap'. This way I can check as I go on, whether any further movement is taking place. Just occasionaly there is, and I have to put the job aside to a drier and/or cooler day.

 

looking forward to you playing Springtime in Battersea on it next time at Bradfield

 

be good and be lucky

 

Dave

Hallo me old "Angel T North"

I have been ringing you for a couple of weeks and I can only get your answering service telling me to ring later.

Luckily Mark told me you were OK.

Thanks for coming back on this one.In my old tuning days I used to turn around one side a day (I was doing a full time job at the time)and I always bolted up after each side was done, nowedays it is a bit more relaxed, I do the work when I feel like it so more precautions are necessary.

Interesting observations on this renovation, the first thing I noticed was the old filing. Very course and filed at

90 degrees so the file marks are across the reed, just what we have discussed in the past to cause snapping along those marks. I file at 45 degrees, but from base towards tip so that the action of the file goes longways rather than across.

The tuning, due to rust and just poor tuning, is all over the place and it is very easy to assume that each reed needs the same work.I very nearly fell into this trap, but checked the reed on the tuner before I started and it was almost spot on in tune. It is not easy to put metal on once you have filed it off.

As you know Dave it requires a lot of patience and care to repair concertinas, if any of you out there are the type that over screws up a water tap , strips threads and in general are heavy handed , leave well alone.

Al

[Alan Day]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

Just a toy at the moment Dirge,but very interesting and quite simple layout.It's a 48 button one so quite small in comparison with your Maccan. Quite good quality reeds in general, but loads more work on this little devil.

Al

[david robertson]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

 

It is actually possible to play "Springtime in Battersea" on an Anglo, if you're clever enough. Have a listen to this recording by Anahata (who is very clever indeed). Yes, I know it sounds like a duet, but I promise it's an Anglo - I've seen him do it!

Edited November 12, 2010 by david robertson

[Alan Day]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

 

It is actually possible to play "Springtime in Battersea" on an Anglo, if you're clever enough. Have a listen to this recording by Anahata (who is very clever indeed). Yes, I know it sounds like a duet, but I promise it's an Anglo - I've seen him do it!

Very nice indeed ,thanks for posting it.I can appreciate the time he must have spent working this all out.

Al

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

It is actually possible to play "Springtime in Battersea" on an Anglo, if you're clever enough. Have a listen to this recording by Anahata (who is very clever indeed). Yes, I know it sounds like a duet, but I promise it's an Anglo - I've seen him do it!

David--

 

Do you know how many buttons are on the Anglo he's playing? I have the feeling it's more than 30...

[david robertson]

Thanks Frank I am currently working on my Lachenal Crane Duet and I just had a feeling about leaving the wood unprotected.

Al

You kept quiet about that. So forced by the overwhelming evidence of the Duet International hopefulls' submissions you've laid a plan to give the ol' Anglo the Elbow then...

It is actually possible to play "Springtime in Battersea" on an Anglo, if you're clever enough. Have a listen to this recording by Anahata (who is very clever indeed). Yes, I know it sounds like a duet, but I promise it's an Anglo - I've seen him do it!

David--

 

Do you know how many buttons are on the Anglo he's playing? I have the feeling it's more than 30...

 

If I remember rightly. it's a 38k Jeffries, rather like my own. (If only I could say the same for my standard of playing!)

[SteveS]

Having had major problems with wood warping that is not associated with concertina repair,I just wondered if the repairers amongst you take any precautions for reed pan warping when you are in the process of reed retuning. As warping can take place overnight with differences in temperature, dampness etc do you screw it back into the concertina or just leave it on your workbench until the tuning is finished ? As many of you know ,wood warping is a major problem, it is almost impossible to get a warp out once it forms and no matter how much clamping down ,or wetting and then clamping , it always seems to spring back to it's warped state.

Al

It's not always possible to bolt everything back up - I'm thinking of times when say during the stages of French polishing the ends when the ends must be off the instrument - bolting back up runs the risk of damaging the new shellac around the bolt holes - so the ends may need to be off the instrument for some time. What do folks do then?

[Kautilya]

Having had major problems with wood warping that is not associated with concertina repair,I just wondered if the repairers amongst you take any precautions for reed pan warping ......

Al

Bellows makers sugggest you only send the end frames off not the whole box for new bellows to be attached. Does that mean bolts have nothing to hold on to so everything remains tight....? So what is the solution there? Place weights?

Edited November 14, 2010 by Kautilya

[Chris Ghent]

Make up a dummy bellows frame, only has to be a flat piece of wood.

 

Always clamp everything, always...

 

Chris

[apprenticeOF]

While working on an old Lachenal that had been "barn stored", one of the reed pans was very badly warped. I thought it was toast. There were only 2 support blocks left on that side, so it had had years to wander off. I put new blocks in, but the warp was bad enough that the new blocks started cracking off when tightening up.

 

I made 2 hexagons from 1" plywood and drilled them with a pattern of 3/8" holes. The faces were then lined with felt and the holes opened up through the felt. I placed the offending reed pan between the hexagons, with the felts against the pan. I used 3 large spring clamps to apply continuous moderate clamping pressure, and left it by a window opened a crack. 3 days later when I checked, most of the warp was gone, and the pan is now serviceable.

 

Maybe dumb luck, don't know, but it worked this time.

 

I now use that jig to hold reed pans while I am working on other stuff.

[d.elliott]

While working on an old Lachenal that had been "barn stored", one of the reed pans was very badly warped. I thought it was toast. There were only 2 support blocks left on that side, so it had had years to wander off. I put new blocks in, but the warp was bad enough that the new blocks started cracking off when tightening up.

 

I made 2 hexagons from 1" plywood and drilled them with a pattern of 3/8" holes. The faces were then lined with felt and the holes opened up through the felt. I placed the offending reed pan between the hexagons, with the felts against the pan. I used 3 large spring clamps to apply continuous moderate clamping pressure, and left it by a window opened a crack. 3 days later when I checked, most of the warp was gone, and the pan is now serviceable.

 

Maybe dumb luck, don't know, but it worked this time.

 

I now use that jig to hold reed pans while I am working on other stuff.

 

I follow a simple logic, what causes movement in wood is usually changes in humidity. Any slight spring from being un-bolted will always spring back. I made it my policy to put reed pans and action boxes into sealed poly bags when the instrument is to be stripped down for more than a few hours. It takes me a day to take off old bellows, prepare the frames, and pass through a series of gluing processes. I have never had a problem, touching wood. Even if apart for a week or so. Low hassle and maximum risk reduction.

 

Dave