Left hand fingering question

[Jeff C]

Since last week, I have put in at least an hour each evening working mostly on Constant Billy (pg. 34) in Bertram Levy's book "The Anglo Concertina Demystified". Slow going but making progress. Last night I noticed that my left hand fingering was not as he had written.

 

This example crudely created in paint is marked as in the book (p. 30, bottom.) Note the fingerings across the top. I have been leaving ring, middle and index on buttons 8 9 and 10 and playing all lower notes with the little finger. In order to do it his way and reach for 1 and 6 with my ring finger I have to pull my middle and index off of 9 and 10 and have to find them again. I don't have small hands but not giant ones either.

 

Is there a reason not to do it my way? Will I run into trouble later if I don't do it his way? Will Lassie rescue Timmy in time?

 

Jeff

[JimLucas]

Since last week, I have put in at least an hour each evening working mostly on Constant Billy (pg. 34) in Bertram Levy's book "The Anglo Concertina Demystified". Slow going but making progress. Last night I noticed that my left hand fingering was not as he had written.

 

This example crudely created in paint is marked as in the book (p. 30, bottom.) Note the fingerings across the top. I have been leaving ring, middle and index on buttons 8 9 and 10 and playing all lower notes with the little finger. In order to do it his way and reach for 1 and 6 with my ring finger I have to pull my middle and index off of 9 and 10 and have to find them again. I don't have small hands but not giant ones either.

 

Is there a reason not to do it my way? Will I run into trouble later if I don't do it his way? Will Lassie rescue Timmy in time?

I believe this issue has been discussed before, though not specifically in connection with BL's book. The conclusion, as I recall, was that either "method" is fine, but that due to differing hand shapes, finger lengths, etc., some individuals find the one more comfortable, while others prefer the other. In particular, I think some individuals said that they had more difficulty reaching that E/F button with their little finger than with their ring finger.

 

As for myself, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. I just tried playing the exercise you referred to, and without even thinking about it I found myself sometimes using the one finger and sometimes the other. So if you can reach the button comfortably with either finger, I would recommend that you work on it first the one way, then the other. The practice will stand you in good stead in the future.

 

As for having to pull your middle and index fingers away from buttons 9 and 10 (BL's notation)... I wonder. Maybe that's true if you hand is narrow, but it might be worth the effort to practice spreading your fingers. I can keep those two fingers on 9 and 10 and still comfortably reach button 1 with my ring finger, but it's also possible (for me, anyway) to let the middle finger "float" while still keeping the index finger on button 10. Beyond that, you should find as you get more and more practice behind you that you can lift all your fingers completely away from the buttons and still put them back on whatever button you wish without looking. It's a bit like learning to scratch particular spots on the back of your head without fumbling around across half your skull in search of them. You probably learned that so long ago that you can't remember having to learn it. Yes?

[hjcjones]

As I am not familiar with BL's button numbering system it took me a while to figure out what you are doing. I'm a little mystified that BL should recommend using the ring finger on these buttons - I find it much easier to use the little finger, and I believe it opens more possibilities for more advanced playing if you can train the little finger to use these buttons.

 

However I would also agree with Jim that, if the size of your hand permits, it should be quite possible to use the ring finger without having to move the first and middle fingers. I should have thought average-size male hands should be able to manage this. If your hand is too small, all the more reason imo to use the little finger.

[Jeff C]

The ring finger marking could be an error. I have run into a some errors in the button numbering marks so there may well be similar errors in the fingering marks.

[Jim Van Donsel]

I think I asked the same question on this board about two year ago, when I was starting out. Levy's fingering seemed crazy to me, and still does.

 

I've been using my pinkie for those far-left buttons and it's worked out great.

 

-jim

[JimLucas]

I think I asked the same question on this board about two year ago, when I was starting out. Levy's fingering seemed crazy to me, and still does.

 

I've been using my pinkie for those far-left buttons and it's worked out great.

What I think is "crazy" is thinking there's

only one

reasonable way to do it.

For some people's hands one or the other way may indeed be difficult and not worth the effort. In particular, for a person with an unusually short or weak little finger, using the middle finger on button 1 (E/F) may be the only way. On the other hand, as I noted above, I personally find both ways comfortable.

 

But if I'm playing that particular sequence -- button 1 in the bass followed by button 6 (C/G), and never mind what I'm doing with the index and middle in between -- I do often find it more comfortable to use a ring-little sequence, rather than ring-ring. I.e., I position both the ring and little fingers together above their respective buttons, rather than jumping from button to button with the little finger.

 

At other times or in other sequences I do jump the little finger. It all depends. And I definitely think -- as I've often said before -- that versatility is a virtue.

[Jeff C]

I expect over time my fingers will loosen up and stretch just as they did when I took up the guitar and banjo. For now, the pinkie works better for me.

[Leonard]

I think I asked the same question on this board about two year ago, when I was starting out.

 

I've been using my pinkie for those far-left buttons and it's worked out great.

What I think is "crazy" is thinking there's

only one

reasonable way to do it.

. . . . . .

 

 

"Levy's fingering seemed crazy to me, and still does." That doesn't imply he thinks his way is the only reasonable one. He just can't imagine that Levy's way could work for him. That's what I read.

[Bruce McCaskey]

I find my default would be to use the little finger, but the ring finger works as well. Of course hand size and finger length will be factors, but this may also be a case where you'll find that your ability to use the ring finger will improve as you play more and work at such stretches. In my experience it has often been the case that fingering that seems uncomfortable, in some cases nearly impossible for me at the start, eventually became easy and a building block to further advancement. Although I see no advantage to one finger over the other in this case, I suggest you work at playing it both ways to build dexterity.

 

As to Bertram's reasons for the fingering specified, I suspect it's his default, and while not a factor in this tune/exercise, perhaps he generally uses his ring finger for such a situation because it leaves his little finger free to be prepared for chording use of other buttons in the low region of the instrument. Noel Hill often does the same thing, preferring some button and finger combinations for their potential in chording and ornamentation. Teaching such preferred methods to new students prepares them for more advanced or demanding fingering situations that they may encounter as they advance.

 

In recent months I've had the opportunity to discuss several fingering approaches with Bertram related to the new tutor he has prepared. In some cases he has been open to alternate fingering while in others he has had very specific reasons for his choices. I can certainly say that he has given me a new perspective on fingering, using patterns that would never have occurred to me otherwise with my "cross-row" mindset. Some of them were quite difficult for me at first, felt quite odd and almost alien, but after a time they became familiar and natural motions.

[david_boveri]

I would say little finger if that was it, and ring finger if I wanted to play another note with my little finger. Sometimes, if I am taking out a lower note as a variation, I will use the ring finger out of habit. Even in those situations, I tend to go back and forth. I believe flexibility is key.

[Dan Worrall]

Bertram's choice of fingering for that phrase was part of a method that he has now just about discarded. I've played his version of that particular tune for over twenty years, using my pinkie finger...I found his instructions on that choice of fingers odd back then and still do. We asked him about that at Palestine two years ago....he was not particularly dogmatic about it. In fact, Bruce could tell you that his new method is very different than that in his original tutor. Bertram today imagines optimal fingering positions for phrases--phrase by phrase--before he gets to each phrase, then carefully gets his fingers in position. It is a complex (and very useful!) system that teaches lessons he has painstakingly learned on the bandoneon, but it is not for the faint of heart. It requires a different mindset than one in which you try to keep your fingers in a familiar home position, and as Bruce noted, a different mindset than that of the typical cross row player. I suspect that some of that philospohy was in his old tutor.

 

Strengthening and employing the pinkie is one of the most important things to learn no matter who's method you are attempting; I'd take every opportunity to use it on the leftmost notes.

 

Cheers,

Dan

 

edited...I meant to say pinkie above, 2d sentence, not ring finger!

Edited December 31, 2010 by Dan Worrall

[michael sam wild]

Hi Bruce and Dan, has BL made his new tutorials public in book or CD format?

[Dan Worrall]

Hi Bruce and Dan, has BL made his new tutorials public in book or CD format?

I believe it will at least be in book format. Don't know about an accompanying CD; Bruce would know better than I.

[Bruce McCaskey]

I'm looking forward to the publication of Bertram's new concertina tutor, but it's not available yet. And to clarify, it is his intention to include a CD with the tutor in a manner similar to his first tutor - in fact, the overall formats will be similar.

 

It's been about a year since I had my first glimpse of the draft of his new tutor, and at that time he was hoping to to have it published by June of 2010. He's been working on it, but he is a busy man with much going on in his life. He's been building a new wooden sailing vessel, he has an active performance schedule with his tango group and he's made at least one trip to Argentina to attend a Bandoneon conservatory. I think his family also draws much of his time and attention too, but the tutor hasn't been forgotten, just delayed. He tells me he needs periods of calm and quiet time to work on it and I can understand that.

 

I may indirectly bear some of the responsibility for the delay in publication. Early this spring he permitted me to comment on the text and try out many of the exercises over a period of several weeks, and based on my comments and questions he elected to revise portions of the text and some of the exercises. Don't assume by that statement that I make any claim to advising Bertram, rather my contribution might best be described as demonstrating to him that he shouldn't assume too much knowledge or ability on the part of the student.

 

As has been stated elsewhere, Bertram says he's drawn on his lifetime of concertina experience as well as related insights he's gathered from many years of playing the bandoneon. He's put together a tutor that teaches by illustration, that is, while the text is informative and establishes his intent, understanding and internalization of the methodology comes from playing the exercises. As you learn to use the fingering and bellows motions he's specified you learn his phrasing style of play.

 

I can only guess when publication of the tutor might occur at this point. I asked Bertram about its progress in early December and he said he felt the revised version was quite close to being ready but commented that other commitments were keeping him from working on it. He anticipated having time after the first of the year, so I'm hoping it will be publically available by this summer if not before.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Bruce McCaskey