The Ebay chancer (UK)

[TomB-R]

I'm sure most who follow concertina listings on Ebay Uk will have seen the "Chancer's" standard question when it gets posted by the seller, (and there may be many instances when it doesn't get posted.)

 

A recent example of the usual question this person asks -

 

"Although this concertina looks in a generally good condition, it will still require some TLC to bring it to playable condition (new pads, valves, straps, bellow repairs, tuning to modern concert pitch) which will cost over £150. Given that this work needs to be done, would you be interested in £110 in cash (I can collect) for the concertina in its unrestored condition?"

 

They generally offer about 3/4 of what it's likely to go for.

 

Are they're inviting the seller to post a "Buy it now" or making an offer to buy outside Ebay? Presumably they succeed in duping sellers once in a while.

 

Given how often they try it on, it would seem worthwhile sellers reporting them to Ebay as regularly making offers to buy off Ebay. (For whatever good that might do!)

 

Or is this behaviour fair enough?

Edited October 14, 2010 by TomB-R

[Geraghty]

My understanding: If there are not yet any bids at the time of the question, it can be considered a request to change the auction to Buy it Now format...but if there are already bids then there's no legal way for the seller to accept the proposal.

[David Levine]

...if there are already bids then there's no legal way for the seller to accept the proposal.

 

Not true. You can always accept an outright offer. All you do to cancel the auction is use the Ebay form and say "Item is no longer for sale." This isn't a sporting event. It's an auction, where one person wants as much money as he can get for an item, and an other person wants to buy it for as little as he can. To say something isn't sporting is to put a spin on an otherwise simple financial transaction. If the offer doesn't seem fair then the seller can just say "no."

 

Why would you consider an offer as duping sellers once in a while? A seller should spend a little time to determine the value of something he is selling. If he sells it below market value then it is his own fault. If there is a willing buyer and a willing seller then I see nothing wrong with a transaction that deprives a gargantuan monopoly (Ebay) of a few dollars. An appeal to "fair play" seems rather sanctimonious to me. It's an auction, not a fecking cricket match.

[Theo]

I see nothing wrong with a transaction that deprives a gargantuan monopoly (Ebay) of a few dollars.

 

Agreed. I finally lost sympathy with ebay when they made it compulsory for sellers in the UK to offer paypal, and they upped the final value fee to 10%. I'm not the ebay chancer of this topic, but I do sympathise with him or her.

[tombilly]

That's not being a 'chancer' - it's simply called 'horse trading' and perfectly acceptable, legitimate and should be widely encouraged!

[TomB-R]

...if there are already bids then there's no legal way for the seller to accept the proposal.

 

Not true. You can always accept an outright offer. All you do to cancel the auction is use the Ebay form and say "Item is no longer for sale." This isn't a sporting event. It's an auction, where one person wants as much money as he can get for an item, and an other person wants to buy it for as little as he can. To say something isn't sporting is to put a spin on an otherwise simple financial transaction. If the offer doesn't seem fair then the seller can just say "no."

 

Why would you consider an offer as duping sellers once in a while? A seller should spend a little time to determine the value of something he is selling. If he sells it below market value then it is his own fault. If there is a willing buyer and a willing seller then I see nothing wrong with a transaction that deprives a gargantuan monopoly (Ebay) of a few dollars. An appeal to "fair play" seems rather sanctimonious to me. It's an auction, not a fecking cricket match.

 

Under your first paragraph a seller who does this is in breach of contract with Ebay. Never mind any moral aspect, just contract law.

 

If you persuade a seller to accept less than the item is worth in open auction, you've duped them. Most sellers see through it or have done their research.

(Although I'm certainly not saying the definition would be satisfied in this case, "obtaining property by deception" is a crime in UK law!)

 

So it's ok to cheat some people but not others hey David?

[David Levine]

You are the one who used "cheat," not me. You're setting me up as a straw man. I won't continue this discussion if that's your method of debate. It's a cheap form of argument. I never said it's ok to cheat some people but not others, and it stinks that you try to put those words in my mouth.

 

How would you, or the seller, know that the item is worth more or less than the sum obtainable in the open auction if the auction has not run its course? If, as you say, Most sellers see through it or have done their research then there isn't any issue is there? Your phrase "see through it" certainly colors the issue. See through what? A fraudulent offer? Again, the seller can simply say "no." There is no "persuasion" or "duping" necessarily going on. Again, you are loading the argument.

 

There are many reasons why a seller might accept an outright offer. Perhaps the seller is willing to accept the offer to avoid fees. Or for a quick sale. Perhaps the seller is the scammer, and has over-rated the item and doesn't want negative feedback. Perhaps the offer is worth more than what seems to be the going price. I have made offers on flutes that have been rejected, only to buy the flute at the end of the auction at a lower figure than I offered. And the seller has had to pay fees on top of that. So it works both ways.

[TomB-R]

...if there are already bids then there's no legal way for the seller to accept the proposal.

 

Not true. You can always accept an outright offer. All you do to cancel the auction is use the Ebay form and say "Item is no longer for sale."

 

You "can" but in doing so you've cheated Ebay of contractual final value fees, given that the item sold through their listing of the item, and you are in breach of contract and the rules you agreed to when placing the listing.

 

Thank you for taking the time to state your other opinions David, I appreciate that even if I might not agree with what you say.

 

Thanks also to other respondents and all viewers, a bit of publicity of the issue was my main aim.

Tom

[shaunw]

I don't see anything wrong with cancelling an auction if Ebay allows you to do that

and you want to accept an outright offer. However beware of accepting payments

outside Ebay since this is the way in which many scams operate. Even if a cheque

clears into your bank account the bank can still reclaim the money if it turns out

to a stolen cheque. Cash on collection would be a safer idea if you know how to

recognise forged banknotes.

 

Ebay's charges are not out of line or excessive compared to the charges of

many auctioneers.

[Azalin]

This thread contains lot of false information about eBay. Have a look a this:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html

 

Basically, you're not supposed to cancel an auction if there are bids on it. The only reason you can cancel an auction is if the item is broken, stolen, etc, thus not available for sale, *not* because you sold it to someone else.

 

If there is less than 12 hours on the auction and there's a bid, you are forced to sell to the highest bidder.

 

I don't care about eBay, but let's call things like they are, if you cancel an auction (with bids) early you might be cheating eBay and potential buyers. If you constantly do it, they will probably ban your account.

 

Here's the important part:

 

Sellers are not permitted to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet the desired sale price. This is considered to be a reserve price violation. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, abuse of this option will be investigated.

[shaunw]

Well its a tough world out there and all sorts of cheating goes on on Ebay. Some people bid on their own auctions,

this is a criminal offence and people have been convicted in court. Even though you are not supposed to close an

auction early without good reason (i.e. a reason recognised by Ebay) the chancers still try to persuade you to

do this. Scammers will try to persuade you to deal outside ebay by wiring them cash and then they disappear and

you never get the goods.

 

You need to be vigilant and not get seduced by the idea of cheating Ebay out of their commission. You could

just end up cheating yourself.

[Dirge]

This thread contains lot of false information about eBay. Have a look a this:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/end_early.html

 

Basically, you're not supposed to cancel an auction if there are bids on it. The only reason you can cancel an auction is if the item is broken, stolen, etc, thus not available for sale, *not* because you sold it to someone else.

 

If there is less than 12 hours on the auction and there's a bid, you are forced to sell to the highest bidder.

 

I don't care about eBay, but let's call things like they are, if you cancel an auction (with bids) early you might be cheating eBay and potential buyers. If you constantly do it, they will probably ban your account.

 

Here's the important part:

 

Sellers are not permitted to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet the desired sale price. This is considered to be a reserve price violation. Although there are legitimate reasons for ending a listing early, abuse of this option will be investigated.

 

It's hard to like Ebay. It's easy to see them as a bunch of robbers that are fair game if you can get one over them. Ebay really isn't very good for the cost, so depriving them of a fee, well it IS cheating them in that there is a deal that is being welched on, but I wouldn't weep for them, for starters, given their monopoly. However if you cancel an auction you deprive the normal fairminded folk (who are waiting to bid in good faith) of the chance to have a go, and that's why I think you shouldn't cancel auctions, even on Ebay; it's mucking people about meanly and I won't do it.

 

Mind you I use Ebay less and less these days because it's so unsatisfactory.

[Azalin]

It's hard to like Ebay. It's easy to see them as a bunch of robbers that are fair game if you can get one over them. Ebay really isn't very good for the cost, so depriving them of a fee, well it IS cheating them in that there is a deal that is being welched on, but I wouldn't weep for them, for starters, given their monopoly.

 

I completely agree. As far as I'm concerned, eBay could be lead to bankruptcy by cheaters and I'd be happy about it. Also, since eBay purchased Paypal, they now kind of have two monopolies. I just wanted to point to the fact that cancelling auctions because you found a buyer elsewhere might not be fair play and you might be cheating, depending on the situation. I also care more about the potential buyers who bid on the item than eBay itself.

 

I wish craigslist.org would come up with some free auction site.