Advice on Buying

[mpitaji]

Hey all!

 

I've been playing on a 30b C/G anglo for about 4 or 5 years (wheatstone). As I recall the stamp/decal said it was a Trinity College, but that has long since worn off, though I can't seem to find any solid references online about the brand even existing, so I might be wrong. Regardless, it's been a good instrument to learn on, surprisingly, but I've needed to upgrade for a long time now. Well, now I finally have a decent amount of money saved up for an upgrade (around US$3k).

 

My initial thoughts were to get a nice hybrid, but upgrade it to a 40b (I'm tired of not having a low D, pull mid E, pull C#, the list goes on!). Alas, none of the hybrid makers seem to make a 40b C/G? I am led to believe that such an instrument is mostly for the Irish playing crowd? I certainly play Irish music, but I'm also starting to play some Klezmer, Musettes, Mazurkas, Oldtime, etc., etc.

 

I really don't relish the idea of re-learning all of my tunes on a G/D tuning, but would certainly do so if playing the aforementioned styles was easier. I really want to be able to play all sorts of styles, and don't like the idea of having to transpose songs just so they fit my instrument. It seems like, if I have the range, I should be able to play basically anything (skill notwithstanding). I get supremely frustrated when I encounter a mutually exclusive set of notes. I don't mind the difficulty in mapping out a complex fingering pattern to get them all to play nicely (I rather enjoy it, weirdly), but if the instrument won't allow it, it sometimes makes me think I'm playing the wrong instrument...

 

I've considered just going for a nice new one (wakker, dipper, suttner, etc.), but can't really get by with what I have for the requisite 3-4 year waiting period.

 

I guess this whole process is giving me a bit of an existential crisis. Have I been playing the wrong instrument? I've been fighting the anglo for years... should I be on a Duet or an English instead (they've always sounded flat by my ears, yet the anglo has that bouncy, lively feel, but is that just the players??). And there's little things, like, on a 40b Wheatstone, there's a C#/D# and then a D#/C# right next to it... why? I mean I get it being a logical step from a 30b to add a reverse to get that alternate C# on the pull... but should it just be a C#/C# and a D#/D# at that point? But is that a slippery slope toward, *gasp*, and English or Duet system?

 

Ok, concertina angst aside, any suggestions on makers, style/type/tuning of instruments, especially those in my price range, would be super-amazingly helpful!

 

Thanks!

 

- Tim

Edited October 11, 2010 by mpitaji

[ben]

Hi Tim,

 

My suggestion is to step to a 40 button Wheatstone C/G Anglo or a Koot Brits 40 button C/G anglo. The extra buttons and bellows folds will allow you to play all styles of music in all 12 musical keys. The Brits concertinas are availalble for half the price of a Wakker 40 button anglo concertina. You can get them in six sided, 8 sided, 10 sided and 12 sided. The reed are steel reeds and the reed shoes or frames can be obtained in brass or alluminum. The reedpans are in a radial-dovetailed pattern.

 

Hre are video clips of Koot Brits concertinas being played:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4xjfQ8DGiE

 

and another one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_bW63U9R-k

Edited October 11, 2010 by Ben

[Ken_Coles]

I think the reason you don't see 40-button anglo hybrids is that you can't fit that many accordion reeds on a flat reed pan unless you make the concertina significantly larger. IIRC one of the hybrid makers in the U.K. has a 36-button model.

 

Weren't Trinity College from eastern Europe somewhere? Someone here will know.

 

Is your budget in UK pounds, or Euros, or US dollars, or...? Makes a difference!

 

Ben, does Koot Brits have a web site or is it solely by word of mouth?

 

Ken

[Woody]

IIRC one of the hybrid makers in the U.K. has a 36-button model.

Andy Norman makes 36-button models with choice of layout - see www.acnorman.co.uk

[mpitaji]

I think the reason you don't see 40-button anglo hybrids is that you can't fit that many accordion reeds on a flat reed pan unless you make the concertina significantly larger. IIRC one of the hybrid makers in the U.K. has a 36-button model.

 

Weren't Trinity College from eastern Europe somewhere? Someone here will know.

 

Is your budget in UK pounds, or Euros, or US dollars, or...? Makes a difference!

 

Ben, does Koot Brits have a web site or is it solely by word of mouth?

 

Ken

 

Goodness, my apologies! I'm in Portland, OR, and my ~3k is in US dollars.

 

Hadn't really thought about the size impact with accordion reeds. Makes sense!

 

Re: Koot Brits' concertinas, I haven't really heard much about them. I've certainly heard him on youtube (I do youtube tangents as an idle hobby), and though I'm not moved by Boermusic specifically, he's clearly a fantastic player. Does he build to order? Does he have a website? Presumably the concertinas are using concertina reeds? Is there anything unique about their sound, playability, etc.?

 

Re: Wheatstones, those are typically out of my price range? I've seen some of the later models, which I assume to be less expensive, '30s, '40s, 50s... how do they stack up to the quality of some of the newer hybrids? How is their sound, playability, etc.?

 

Thanks for the tip; I'll check out Andy Norman's website.

 

Thanks again, all very helpful!

 

- Tim

[ben]

Koot Brits does not have a website but he can be reached in South Africa at the following telephone number: 011 27 12 804-7082. His addres is: Koot Brits 185 De Bruyn Str. Weavind Park, Pretoria 0185 Rep. of South Africa.

 

If a person wants a 2010-technology instrument by top makers then your price range for a 40 button concertina will be about $6,000.00 for a Wakker instrument, $9,000.00 for a Colin Dipper instrument and $11,500.00 for a new Steve Dickenson Wheatstone C/G anglo. I am on all three makers' waiting list - waiting for years already.

All three builder mentioned above build excellent concertinas.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Ben

[Leo]

Hi Tim

 

Wakker Concertinas might have something worth a look. They are close, in Valleyford Wa. You could almost walk there.

http://www.concertinaconnection.com/contact.htm

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/

 

I don't know of their delivery times or prices, but they are close, and have 40 button examples on their site. They are pretty.

 

Thanks

Leo

[mpitaji]

Hi Tim

 

Wakker Concertinas might have something worth a look. They are close, in Valleyford Wa. You could almost walk there.

http://www.concertinaconnection.com/contact.htm

http://www.wakker-concertinas.com/

 

I don't know of their delivery times or prices, but they are close, and have 40 button examples on their site. They are pretty.

 

Thanks

Leo

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Leo. But alas, most of the Wakker concertinas are waaay out of my price range (at US$6k for a 40b), and the wait time is around 3 years. I know they have a cool new clover model, but it's only a 30b, though the price is very respectable (and the kit is fantastic, if I had the time and money, I'd already have bought one!). Though popping over to their site, I did just notice a concertina on consignment for $2,100. Anyone know anything about the Geuns-Wakker model? As for walking, according to google maps, it'd take me only 4days and 23hrs to make it there (course, driving is a much more reasonable 6-7 hours!)

 

- Tim

[Ken_Coles]

Geuns-Wakker were a very respectable (in my view) hybrid instrument that came out of a collaboration between two builders when Wim Wakker was located in Europe. I have a Geuns-Wakker C/G baritone and it is a great instrument with a nice (not very hybrid-like, comes close to concertina-like for me) tone.

 

Now it can be told - I spent the summer building a Clover for my significant other, and now that she's breaking it in I should add my story to that thread. It's well thought out, but the expertise and patience of the builder is a factor in what you get. I adjusted mine endlessly (and have more to do), and the design is intended to forgive a fair amount of that.

 

You could even do a 40-key Stagi with 1/4 of your budget, it might not drive you nuts before you have a bigger stash saved up.

 

Ken

[Daniel Hersh]

Geuns-Wakker were a very respectable (in my view) hybrid instrument that came out of a collaboration between two builders when Wim Wakker was located in Europe. I have a Geuns-Wakker C/G baritone and it is a great instrument with a nice (not very hybrid-like, comes close to concertina-like for me) tone.

 

Now it can be told - I spent the summer building a Clover for my significant other, and now that she's breaking it in I should add my story to that thread. It's well thought out, but the expertise and patience of the builder is a factor in what you get. I adjusted mine endlessly (and have more to do), and the design is intended to forgive a fair amount of that.

 

You could even do a 40-key Stagi with 1/4 of your budget, it might not drive you nuts before you have a bigger stash saved up.

The one Geuns-Wakker I played (years ago, briefly) was quite nice.

 

A Stagi/Bastari 40-button might indeed be a good bet for you to find out if a 40-button Anglo is right for you. There was one in California for sale here back in March at a very reasonable price - perhaps it's still available.

 

And if you decide to switch to duet there are some great deals out there on vintage Cranes and Maccanns. I'm in the process of learning Crane after many years of playing Anglo (with side trips into piano accordion, Chemnitzer and Hayden) and find it a not-too-difficult transition.

[tombilly]

 

Hre are video clips of Koot Brits concertinas being played:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=t4xjfQ8DGiE

 

 

LOL - the screwdriver on the table isn't very encouraging!!

 

Yes, I carry a small one in my case but very rarely have to use it, touch wood..

[ben]

FYI....This is the action board a 10 sided Brits concertina. This particular concertina has perspex (plexiglass action board..with rivited action...a change form the "hook and spring" method used before.

I prefer the traditional wood look to a concertina but the perspex will prevent the concertina from warping in the humid/cold weather.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2010 by Ben

[ben]

This particular Brits concertina is a "shop" concertina....one that was experimented on. It was made in 1990's. The action is new - it is rivited action. The reeds were harvested from Wheatstone anglos.

 

Brits makes his own reeds now ordered from MDS Steel in the U.S.A

Edited October 12, 2010 by Ben

[Theo]

 

 

FYI....This is the inside of a 10 sided Brits concertina. (I have to learn how to make these pictures smaller...)

 

I see a great variety of reeds in there, they must have been saved from several different instruments. Does he always use old reeds?

[Paul Read]

Theo,

I hadn't noticed that. There are quite a variety of reeds in there. To answer your question; he makes his own reeds usually. I have a 30-button Brits made to my specification with brass reed frames (historically he has used aluminium) and rivetted action (he used to use the Wheatstone 50s type saddle action). I've found this to be an excellent instrument and a significant move forward in Koot's production. I will be selling this 30-button C/G as i have a 36-button F/C on the way and need to raise the cash. I don't really play C/Gs myself and the 30-button is specifically made for Irish music.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Paul Read

[ben]

 

 

FYI....This is the inside of a 10 sided Brits concertina. (I have to learn how to make these pictures smaller...)

 

I see a great variety of reeds in there, they must have been saved from several different instruments. Does he always use old reeds?

 

Theo, Koot uses new reeds for new concertinas. Koot uses brand new blue tempered spring steel for reeds and you can choose brass reed shoes or alluminium. The blue tempered spring steel is made in the USA.

 

This 10 sided anglo concertina, though, is one that he built for me using Wheatstone reeds. He has changed over from using the saddle "hook and spring" action to rivited action.