Stephen Chambers Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Did Alexander Prince ever record any purely solo work without piano accompaniment ? Not that I've ever found, and I do have rather a lot of recordings of him (his output was the most prolific of all the old concertina players who recorded), but then a piano accompaniment seems to have been considered obligatory in their day... ... since Ernest Rutterford was mentioned, I did find this link some time back http://www.choicerec...gs.com/news.htm A couple of recordings can be found there of him and Lloyd Shakespeare (brass player) (well, one and a bit to be precise) ... and there is one full download there. Rutterford made quite a few recordings (of which I'd have half a dozen) with British Champion cornet player Lloyd Shakespeare (with whom he had a dance band in the late '20s, in which my late friend Harry Minting played - initially on "rhythm concertina" and then tenor banjo) but he is more of an accompanist on these. You'd get a much better idea of his playing from his solo (+ piano) recordings. By the way, he was the author of Wheatstone's "Practical and Comprehensive Tutor for the Duet Concertina." Personally, I prefer his playing to that of Prince. I will call in to share a pint or two next time I am in Miltown. Friel's then I guess? (Seeing that my shop is now right next door...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I've got about 10 Prince 78s. One of them is the Bluebells of Scotland (Yes with piano acc) I would defy anyone to play it today....I certainly couldn't! Thanks, Ralph. I had tended to agree with Dirge about Prince but changed my mind after hearing that one. Here is a link to an mp3 of it. The title had always put me off even trying this one before but I listened to it and was impressed too, it's the justification for his reputation that I was asking for. How's he doing the fast repeated chords in the last third? Using the overlap alternately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 How's he doing the fast repeated chords in the last third? Sounds like he's wiggling the bellows open and closed quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 How's he doing the fast repeated chords in the last third? Sounds like he's wiggling the bellows open and closed quickly. Exactly! Well, not fully open and closed, of course, but quickly in and out by a tiny fraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) In defense of Prince we should imagine the circumstances; making commercial recordings for the consumption of "Joe Public" would need a clear approach,not to dazzle your customers with material that is too hard to swallow. The pieces, therefore, needed to be light hearted and 'danceable', Piano accompaniment was as in fashion then as Guitar accompaniment is today. Then, as now, you don't make money by baffling your audience. My mother loved the singing of Richard Tauber but her record collection from the 30's and 40's consisted of Bing Crosby and his ilk! There are numerous examples of great 'artists' who never were understood outside of a few dedicated cognocenti. In my own field of special interest ( the Uilleann Pipes) the greatest 20th century exponent, in my opinion, was Seamus Ennis, but you cannot expect the general listening public to apprieciate him. One famous Jazz musician, I cannot recall who, has a 'noted' quote " Less is more". I think this applies to some of the Prince recordings. The one I am studying (Woodland Flowers) is an example of very simple arraingement but... the attention to fine detail is wonderfull.Prince's use of appoggiaturas,subtle bellows direction changes and tiny antisipations all combine to make the melody skip along like dancing wood nymphs... to delight his audience with out shoving a load of complicated stuff in their ears. I have been working out my own setting of Woodland Flowers, which is much more complex in its arraingement than the Prince version, more chords and semi-walking bass harmonies. I was quite pleased with myself before I heard Prince.... now I am 'working up' his setting which I feel is more precise and listenable/danceable. Dirge, I will look up your man and many thanks for the tip. Geoff. Edited October 6, 2010 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 In defense of Prince we should imagine the circumstances; making commercial recordings for the consumption of "Joe Public" would need a clear approach,not to dazzle your customers with material that is too hard to swallow. The pieces, therefore, needed to be light hearted and 'danceable', Piano accompaniment was as in fashion then as Guitar accompaniment is today. Then, as now, you don't make money by baffling your audience. My mother loved the singing of Richard Tauber but her record collection from the 30's and 40's consisted of Bing Crosby and his ilk! There are numerous examples of great 'artists' who never were understood outside of a few dedicated cognocenti. In my own field of special interest ( the Uilleann Pipes) the greatest 20th century exponent, in my opinion, was Seamus Ennis, but you cannot expect the general listening public to apprieciate him. One famous Jazz musician, I cannot recall who, has a 'noted' quote " Less is more". I think this applies to some of the Prince recordings. The one I am studying (Woodland Flowers) is an example of very simple arraingement but... the attention to fine detail is wonderfull.Prince's use of appoggiaturas,subtle bellows direction changes and tiny antisipations all combine to make the melody skip along like dancing wood nymphs... to delight his audience with out shoving a load of complicated stuff in their ears. Dirge, I will look up your man and many thanks for the tip. Geoff. I tend to agree with all of that, and with Ralphie's comments regarding differing tastes. As with all things musical the "simple" is always more difficult to deliver. Flashy runs.decorations etc etc ... whether you're talking singing, concertina playing, triple tonguing while playing cornet ... whatever... all draw the attention, whereas a simple tune delivered with feeling requires a great deal more attention to technique, delivery, and emotional content in order to capture and captivate a listener. PS Mr Prince obviously must have had something going for him since quite obviously more than a few of us have been gleaning recorded copies of his work (in whatever format) and we're talking about him here long after he passed on to other musical realms in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 [ Friel's then I guess? (Seeing that my shop is now right next door...) Err.. yes.. we could take the pints next door, to your shop, and listen to these wonderfull recordings you have so assiduously collected, whilst we quaff ? Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Friel's then I guess? (Seeing that my shop is now right next door...) Err.. yes.. we could take the pints next door, to your shop, and listen to these wonderfull recordings you have so assiduously collected, whilst we quaff ? Geoff, You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Yup! Sounds pretty good to me Irene. Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Yup! Sounds pretty good to me Irene. Geoff. Could be a long night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Yup! Sounds pretty good to me Irene. Geoff. Could be a long night... Hmmm... yes!! I am sure the recordings are very well worth sampling... but (as they say in west Clare) what way is the Guinness these days ? It has been over a year since I was there. Must get back to mow the lawn (or could that be to moan the lawn, or loss of it) sometime. Anyone want to buy a very very old cottage, just outside Miltown Malbay ? Very handy for the Willie Clancy week and year long sessions...... PS; have you got a USB port on that gramaphone, Steve ? Edited October 6, 2010 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Did Alexander Prince ever record any purely solo work without piano accompaniment ? I don't know about solo recordings , but his recording of Il Bacio was carried out with an orchestra rather than piano (I was just listening to stuff on the Digitisation project's website again, and noticed that the reason that the number of recordings now available to listen to there is as the result of funding from the Grammy organisation which enabled 1000 recordings to be digitised in March). http://cylinders.lib...um&sortOrder=id Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Yup! Sounds pretty good to me Irene. Geoff. Could be a long night... Maybe you could combine it with the talk I'm giving to the Old Kilfarboy Society in Miltown, on Tuesday 14th December? My title (courtesy of Seán Ó Riada) is "Designed by foreigners for the use of peasants" and it's about the invention, and introduction into Irish music of the concertina, melodeon and accordion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 You just keep the pints coming (they've given them to me "to go" before now!) and I'll keep supplying the 78s, changing the needle and winding the gramophone... Can we all come? A cylinder/78/Prince/Rutterford etc workshop in civilised surroundings with civilised people ? Yup! Sounds pretty good to me Irene. Geoff. Could be a long night... Maybe you could combine it with the talk I'm giving to the Old Kilfarboy Society in Miltown, on Tuesday 14th December? My title (courtesy of Seán Ó Riada) is "Designed by foreigners for the use of peasants" and it's about the invention, and introduction into Irish music of the concertina, melodeon and accordion... Hhmmm.... ???.... that tittle should get the "peasants" in ! I wonder if O'Riada had ever read that usefull book "How to win friends and influence people"? Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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