which concertina

[ido]

Hello,

 

I live in a contry that dosn't sell concertinas at all, so I'm going to get one from america. The thing is I don't know which one should I buy, an english concertina or an anglo concertina? Concidering I don't really have any experiance in music and I'm planning to play mainly for fun not in a band or something, plus I like pirate songs. What's better or easier to play? Can you play all songs on both?

 

Secondly, if I buy an english one should I get a jack or a jackie? If I get an anglo should I get a rochelle or bonneti from ebay.

 

Third, are the cocertinas on http://www.concertinaconnection.com'>http://www.concertinaconnection.com any good because it says they are made in china unlike the bonneti which is made in the U.S.A.?

 

Last, my mom is going to America in a week and going to be there for two weeks so my question is do http://www.concertinaconnection.com have a fast shipment?

 

Sorry for all the questions, hope you'll answer soon

 

P.S.- 350$ is kind of my limet.

[Ken_Coles]

This has become a popular question lately.

 

I live in a contry that dosn't sell concertinas at all, so I'm going to get one from america. The thing is I don't know which one should I buy, an english concertina or an anglo concertina? Concidering I don't really have any experiance in music and I'm planning to play mainly for fun not in a band or something, plus I like pirate songs. What's better or easier to play? Can you play all songs on both?

 

Somebody can play any given song on either system. If you are remote from other players and have never done music you're probably going to have to just pick one system and try it (after our friends here have all given you their advice).

 

Secondly, if I buy an english one should I get a jack or a jackie? If I get an anglo should I get a rochelle or bonneti from ebay.

 

I would venture that on English the treble range (jackie) is more suited to starting out. I find baritone range (Jack) only fit into what I do after I got some facility and experience. Anglo - definitely a Rochelle.

 

Third, are the cocertinas on http://www.concertinaconnection.com'>http://www.concertinaconnection.com any good because it says they are made in china unlike the bonneti which is made in the U.S.A.?

 

Wim Wakker does the QA on the boxes he brings in and the consensus here is they are a good way to start on a budget. You can trade them back in later, or sell for most of what they cost. I've never heard of bonetti, but will bet my bottom dollar they are either Italian, East European (both likely over your budget) or Chinese (if cost is comparable to a Jackie/Rochelle). I'd also venture to say that we know all the American makers here, and many are participants on this board. If you buy Chinese-made, buy from a concertina maker who can check it for you and give good follow-up support. That steers me to C. Connection.

 

Last, my mom is going to America in a week and going to be there for two weeks so my question is do http://www.concertinaconnection.com have a fast shipment?

 

Send them an email and ask - you'll get a straight answer. I expect they can ship as fast as you like if they have the instrument in stock, which is what you should ask.

 

Welcome to the madness!

Ken

[Daniel Hersh]

I live in a contry that dosn't sell concertinas at all, so I'm going to get one from america. The thing is I don't know which one should I buy, an english concertina or an anglo concertina? Concidering I don't really have any experiance in music and I'm planning to play mainly for fun not in a band or something, plus I like pirate songs. What's better or easier to play? Can you play all songs on both?

 

Secondly, if I buy an english one should I get a jack or a jackie? If I get an anglo should I get a rochelle or bonneti from ebay.

 

Third, are the cocertinas on http://www.concertinaconnection.com any good because it says they are made in china unlike the bonneti which is made in the U.S.A.?

 

Last, my mom is going to America in a week and going to be there for two weeks so my question is do http://www.concertinaconnection.com have a fast shipment?

 

Sorry for all the questions, hope you'll answer soon

 

P.S.- 350$ is kind of my limet.

 

I very much doubt that the Bonneti is made in the USA.

 

The Concertina Connection Jackie/Jack/Rochelle/Elise line are by far the best student/basic concertinas for the price. Yes, they're made in China, but they're designed and vouched for by Wim Wakker of Concertina Connection who knows as much about concertinas as anyone. I've got an Elise myself and have played it quite a bit, and I'm very impressed with its quality and reliability for $350.

 

So far as Anglo vs. English (or vs. Hayden duet, for that matter) there are no easy answers. Do you want a concertina to accompany your own singing? If so, I think that there are more singers who play English than Anglo - but there are many good Anglo playing singers too.

[ido]

thanks for the answers, if i may add what is better for pirate songs and which has the most notes rochelle, jack, jackie, or elise?

[JimLucas]

I live in a contry that dosn't sell concertinas at all....

What country is that?

...I like pirate songs.

Do you mean shanties or other sea songs? I sing a lot of those, but I don't know of any songs that are specifically by or for pirates, and very few about them.

 

Can you play all songs on both?

Play the tunes? Yes. (Also on duets.)

 

Play accompaniments, either simple chords or more complex arrangements? Also yes. (And also on duets.)

 

What's better or easier to play?

Depends on how your brain is wired.

That's not a joke.

 

Most folks can learn the basics on any of the English, anglo, or duet fairly quickly and easily. But some find one or more of the types difficult or impossible, because of some aspect that their personal nervous system just can't cope with. E.g., changes of bellows direction on the anglo, or flipping back and forth between the two ends on an English. Unfortunately, I know of no way to determine in advance whether you're going to have difficulty with one type or another.

 

And when/if you progress to playing more complex arrangements, each kind seems to fit better with certain sorts of arrangement than with other sorts. But considering your declared lack of musical experience, I suspect that it will be quite some time before you come up against that issue.

 

So I would say that on first principles, any of the three -- Rochelle, Jackie, or Elise -- would be a good choice. But if you're planning to use books or videos to teach yourself to play, there is almost nothing available for the duet (Elise), not much but definitely more available for the English (Jackie), and much more available for the anglo (Rochelle). A warning, though, regarding the anglo... nearly all of the modern anglo teaching materials concentrate on playing "tunes", i.e., melody only, without chords or other song accompaniments.

[ido]

1. I live in Israel.

2. By pirate songs I mean "Drunken Sailor", and songs from spongebob or monkey island but I'm interested in all music anyway.

 

I've noticed that the anglo(Rochelle) has 30 notes(x2 because it makes a diferent sound if you pull or push) or you could say 60 and it is the same in expensive anglos, while the english has only 30(not x2) and it has more in the expensive ones(but still not as much as an anglo) meaning the jackie dosn't have all notes but a rochelle does.

I might be wrong so correct me please.

Edited September 26, 2010 by ido

[Larry Stout]

On an anglo there will (fortunately) be several notes available on both push and draw, so a 30 button anglo has less that 60 distinct notes. Similarly there are enharmonic notes (A flat and G# for instance) on an English which appear on different sides of the instrument. I can't speak for an anglo, but on my 48 button and 56 button EC's there are quite a lot of notes one uses only very rarely (the dog whistle range). I don't think you'll find the range of notes available a limitation.

[JimLucas]

I've noticed that the anglo(Rochelle) has 30 notes(x2 because it makes a diferent sound if you pull or push) or you could say 60 and it is the same in expensive anglos, while the english has only 30(not x2) and it has more in the expensive ones(but still not as much as an anglo) meaning the jackie dosn't have all notes but a rochelle does.

I might be wrong so correct me please.

Rochelle:

The

Rochelle

has a 30-button Wheatstone layout, which has 39 distinct notes, rather than 60, since many of the notes are found on both push and pull. However, many of the notes play

only

on push

or

pull, but

not both

, and these push-only and pull-only notes can't be played at the same time. This means that, e.g., one can play a D chord only on the pull and an Fm or Ab (major) chord not at all. Also, the range is slightly less than four full octaves (from C below middle C to A not quite 4 octaves higher), but there are gaps, notes which aren't there at all: the highest G#, and the lowest C#, D, D#, F#, and G#. The gap-free range is thus only 35 notes. A full 4 octaves would be 49 notes, in all.

 

When upgrading, most higher quality anglos are also 30-button, so in terms of notes, there's nothing new to learn. There are quality anglos with more than 30 buttons, but both they and those who play them are distinctly in the minority.

Jackie:

The 30-button

Jackie

has 30 distinct notes. All are available in both directions of the bellows, so any and all chords are possible. And the scale is fully chromatic over the entire range; there are no gaps. There are also no duplicated notes. The standard English keyboard (usually 48 buttons) has 2 enharmonic duplicates (G#/Ab and D#/Eb) in each octave. The

Jackie

lacks those duplications, which allows it to have a larger range with the same number of buttons.

 

When upgrading, all higher quality Englishes not only have a greater range, but they also have the standard duplications which the

Jackie

lacks. E.g., the

Albion

from the Button Box has 37 buttons and 32 distinct notes, while a standard 48-button English has 42 distinct notes and a 56-button tenor-treble has 49 distinct notes, for a fully chromatic, gap-free range of 4 octaves. So upgrading means not only a better quality instrument, but additional capabilities.

Elise:

The 34-button

Elise

has 27 distinct notes, as there are 7 duplications. The range in the left hand is an octave lower than that in the right hand, and these 7 duplicates constitute an overlap of the two ranges. To my surprise (I've just looked at the

Elise

layout for the first time), there are a few gaps in this layout. The lowest C# is missing in both hands, though the one missing from the right hand

is

found on the left hand side. But D#/Eb is missing entirely from the instrument; it's not there in any octave.

 

Any upgrade from the

Elise

will definitely have more buttons, a greater musical range, and the missing D#/Eb's filled in. There will probably also be more duplicated notes (more overlap between the hands). As with the English, an upgrade will present the player with expanded musical potential. The main problem here is the difficulty in obtaining a better quality Hayden-system instrument. Aside from the bulky Stagis, which have gotten mixed reviews, one might have to wait years.

[ido]

Well I'm convinced, I'll get a Jackie just one thing isn't it harder to play with only three fingers availible?

[Steve Mansfield]

Well I'm convinced, I'll get a Jackie just one thing isn't it harder to play with only three fingers availible?

 

You'll find it straightforward enough when you get down to it - you'll find the fingering patterns between the central two rows (where the notes of the C natural scale lives) and the outer two rows (where the sharps and flats live) is pretty logical. Don't get too worried about the concept of distributing three fingers between four rows of buttons, Charles Wheatstone knew what he was doing

 

And anyway there's nothing set in stone to stop you bringing the little finger into play some or all of the time if you really need to; but you'll probably go a very long way in your concertina playing before you do need to, and would certainly do better to follow the standard fingerings until you're at a stage where you can consciously deviate from that.

[JimLucas]

Well I'm convinced, I'll get a Jackie just one thing isn't it harder to play with only three fingers availible?

Harder than what?

The English keyboard layout is four buttons wide for each hand. If you play with three fingers (on each hand), that's one less than the width in buttons.

 

Keyboards on the anglo and duets are 5, 6, or even 7 buttons wide. Playing with four fingers, that's anywhere from one to three fingers less than the width of the keyboard in buttons. And I've been told by one Maccann duet (6-wide) player that he uses only three fingers when playing, though that seems to be very much the exception.

 

By the way, there are individuals who espouse using a four-finger method for the English, though from what I've seen, there are considerable differences among some of their individual styles. I myself started out using three fingers exclusively, and I was fine with that. Then one day I found an arrangement where bringing up the little finger for just one note was a big help. These days I use that fourth finger on each hand occasionally, but still very rarely.

 

Most of the time I use my little fingers for holding the instrument, and I believe that doing so gives me much better control than otherwise. But I also normally hold my concertinas in the air while playing (something else that I find gives me better control), while many others support their instrument on their leg, and a few use some form of neck strap. That greatly reduces the need to use the little fingers for supporting the instrument, but I maintain that they can still be used to improve control.

 

I would guess that you'll do fine to start with the three-finger method. You can always experiment with expanding to four fingers at a later time. In fact, if your little fingers are noticeably weaker or shorter than your other fingers (mine are shorter), trying to start with a four-finger method that expects equal usage and facility could put you off the instrument.

 

Best wishes on you "road to ruin".

[ido]

Thanks for all the help

[Michael Ducky Raley]

Effectively I have two and a half fingers on the right hand for Anglo.

My right ring finger is crooked from a crushed and later rebuilt knuckle.

It's a strong and fast as any other, but doesnt line up and also pushes the pinkie out of line.

[davidcorner]

Well I'm convinced, I'll get a Jackie just one thing isn't it harder to play with only three fingers availible?

Firstly, when playing a tune, you're not using three fingers, you're using six, three on each side.

You alternate between sides to get successive notes.

Secondly, for most tunes, you only need three fingers on each side, two for the central rows (the white notes) and one for accidentals (sharps and flats) because for most common keys, you'll only need one of the outer rows at a time.

To start with, you can play each row with a particular finger; when you get more advanced you will find tunes where you need to use a finger on a different row.