susanpc Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I am a trombonist in a military band in Washington, DC so I am an experienced musician. However, I have been very interested in learning how to play the concertina but have no idea where to start. My initial attraction to the instrument came to me through Celtic/English music, which is probably my primary interest right now but I could see applications in Old Time as well. So where is the best place to start? Anglo, English, Duet, German? I am sure much of it is a matter of preference but I don't even know what I prefer! Trombone is so simple-point and shoot-so the endless Concertina options are a little daunting. Help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Well, your experience and expertise with push-pull clearly indicates anglo! Seriously, there are many prior threads here on this topic; I can't think of anything to add to them, but others can. Good luck, have fun with music whatever it may be. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HallelujahAl! Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 I think the answer pretty much depends on the level of chromaticism you want out of your instrument (I know I'm going to get shot down in flames here but basically the English & Duets are fully chromatic whereas the Anglo has some limits due to it's diatonic DNA. That's not to say that you can't play chromatically on a 30+ button anglo - and many do so with some measure of success. Both anglo & English systems are widely in use in the playing of Celtic / English traditional music. My suggestion would be to do some searches on youtube and have a look at various concertina styles - and see if there's something there that inspires you. Hope this helps. AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Stein Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 There are a couple of us in the area that might assist in your search. I play the English Concertina which is fully chromatic and Jim Besser plays the Anglo which is diatonic. You may also want to check out the DC Folk Society. rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanpc Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Thanks for the advice. In addition, I am told that House of Musical Traditions in Takoma Park is a good source. I will go pick their brains as well. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Thanks for the advice. In addition, I am told that House of Musical Traditions in Takoma Park is a good source. I will go pick their brains as well. Thanks! Given your musical background you should probably at least look at duets; you can take things further with a duet than any other system. If you are aiming at just folk music you probably do better to forget them as you have options of cheap beginner instruments and new mid price ones if you stick to Anglos or Englishes. Getting started on duet is not simple; they in turn are divided by button layout again, and once more, you can't switch from one to the other, they're all different. The easiest to get straight into is Hayden, but it's a newish invention and there's no pool of s/h instruments waiting for you. You'll almost certainly have to buy your 'grown up' instrument new. (that implies both expense and wait) Unfortunately the only half sensible cheap 'beginners duet' of any system is the Elise (same family as the Jackie and Rochelle) and that's a Hayden; if you then decide you want more notes, a fairly common evolution in duet players, you have to start again with another system. Alternatively you skip the Elise stage and buy a larger instrument right from the word go. It ties up a lot of money when you don't know how you'll get on with it. This is what I did and I'm so glad I did, mind you. In this case you'll be looking at Maccan and Crane. Maccan has the least intuitive layout but is also the commonest type, comes in the highest qualities, and largest registers (and currently are the bargains of the concertina world). I play a big Maccan and can tackle piano music on it. Cranes are easier to start on but were mostly made for the Salvation army so tend to be good 'mid range' instruments. It's frustrating but simple; Maccan, most available, highest quality, varied sizes fairly easily available, but most difficult to learn. Crane, usually lower quality, usually not available in the largest registers, a lot easier to get to grips with. Hayden easiest to learn but after your beginner cheapy there's no pool of larger instruments so you're buying new at great expense. There's no obvious forward route; each has its points. That should have frightened you but at least you can't say no one told you... (For the pedants: I haven't mentioned the Jeffries system because I think it has nothing to offer in availability, versatility, range or even tone. Sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanpc Posted September 27, 2010 Author Share Posted September 27, 2010 Concertina IS beginning to frighten me a bit! I have thought about duets but I really think Celtic folk is where I am heading. SO...I will probably go with an Anglo, although English is not out of the question. Thanks for the information though. More is always better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunw Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 If you play your trombone from sheet music then your most sensible choice would be an English concertina. People who buy Anglos are generally people who learn to play by ear maybe because they are too scared to learn to play from music or they need the bigger buttons because they think they are too clumsy to cope with an English. Like the trombone the English Concertina is a fully chromatic orchestral instrument (the Anglo isn't) and it has the range of the violin. You can learn to play it on your own if you can read music. Just get a copy of the Butler tutor book which is available for free over the Internet and work your way through the exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 ...the English Concertina is a fully chromatic ...instrument ... and it has the range of the violin. The standard treble English concertina has a range matching that of the violin. But there are also English concertinas with other ranges. In particular, the baritone English concertina sounds an octave lower than the treble. I know someone who got himself a baritone English concertina, and with the express purpose of learning to play jazz he started taking lessons from a trombonist. Like the trombone the English Concertina is a fully chromatic ... instrument.... Unlike the slide trombone, though, it can't play "in between the notes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunw Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 ...the English Concertina is a fully chromatic ...instrument ... and it has the range of the violin. The standard treble English concertina has a range matching that of the violin. But there are also English concertinas with other ranges. In particular, the baritone English concertina sounds an octave lower than the treble. I know someone who got himself a baritone English concertina, and with the express purpose of learning to play jazz he started taking lessons from a trombonist. Like the trombone the English Concertina is a fully chromatic ... instrument.... Unlike the slide trombone, though, it can't play "in between the notes". Yes but the problem is that there aren't many baritone concertinas for sale at reasonable or even unreasonable prices. The piano can't play between the notes either but jazz pianists found a way to work round this. I don't know if the jazz possibilities of the English concertina have been properly explored yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Yes but the problem is that there aren't many baritone concertinas for sale at reasonable or even unreasonable prices. The baritone Albion from the Button Box is readily available. Its price isn't ridiculously cheap, but it is "reasonable". I don't know if the jazz possibilities of the English concertina have been properly explored yet. Look up John Nixon. Look up Simon Thoumire. Look up Alf Edwards. Maybe Randy Stein would like to add something? Then you can try to start an argument about what "properly" requires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koeter Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 My Albion Baritone is still on sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunw Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 My Albion Baritone is still on sale. Yes but without wanting to be very offensive. Is it a concertina? Does it have concertina or accordion reeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunw Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Yes but the problem is that there aren't many baritone concertinas for sale at reasonable or even unreasonable prices. The baritone Albion from the Button Box is readily available. Its price isn't ridiculously cheap, but it is "reasonable". I don't know if the jazz possibilities of the English concertina have been properly explored yet. Look up John Nixon. Look up Simon Thoumire. Look up Alf Edwards. Maybe Randy Stein would like to add something? Then you can try to start an argument about what "properly" requires. I like John Nixon, isn't he the one who plays a midi concertina. However when I talk about the jazz possibilities I mean I haven't yet heard the concertina Django Reinhardt or Louis Armstrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 My Albion Baritone is still on sale. Is it a concertina? Absolutely! Does it have concertina or accordion reeds? It uses what are often called "accordion" reeds. That does not change the fundamental fact that it is very much a concertina. Yes but without wanting to be very offensive. Not "very"? Just how offensive are you wanting to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Yes but without wanting to be very offensive. Not "very"? Just how offensive are you wanting to be? Oh for heavens sake Jim. It's a troll. Leave it alone. Ignore it completely and it will die of neglect. It is quite a clever troll. It reads the old posts looking for tender spots. I had to grudgingly admire the way it (apparently by chance) wrote 'You can't play counterpoint on the English' and hooked Prof. Chapman neatly. That's when the scales fell from my eyes. By then it had already sucked me in...who knows, by the time it gets bored with us it may end up unable to resist buying a concertina to put all the information it has gleaned to practical use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunw Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Yes but without wanting to be very offensive. Not "very"? Just how offensive are you wanting to be? Oh for heavens sake Jim. It's a troll. Leave it alone. Ignore it completely and it will die of neglect. It is quite a clever troll. It reads the old posts looking for tender spots. I had to grudgingly admire the way it (apparently by chance) wrote 'You can't play counterpoint on the English' and hooked Prof. Chapman neatly. That's when the scales fell from my eyes. By then it had already sucked me in...who knows, by the time it gets bored with us it may end up unable to resist buying a concertina to put all the information it has gleaned to practical use. I don't know about the scales on your eyes, are you some sort of lizard. I own and play several English concertinas and one Anglo concertina. I don't want to be offensive to anyone except the ITM trolls. I don't think a concertina with accordion reeds is a real concertina. It doesn't have a real concertina sound. I see that you live in Napier. I have been to Napier. You have my deepest sympathy. I also see that you don't know what counterpoint is. Edited December 11, 2010 by shaunw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Yes but without wanting to be very offensive. Not "very"? Just how offensive are you wanting to be? Oh for heavens sake Jim. It's a troll. Leave it alone. Ignore it completely and it will die of neglect. It is quite a clever troll. It reads the old posts looking for tender spots. I had to grudgingly admire the way it (apparently by chance) wrote 'You can't play counterpoint on the English' and hooked Prof. Chapman neatly. That's when the scales fell from my eyes. By then it had already sucked me in...who knows, by the time it gets bored with us it may end up unable to resist buying a concertina to put all the information it has gleaned to practical use. I don't know about the scales on your eyes, are you some sort of lizard. I own and play several English concertinas and one Anglo concertina. I don't want to be offensive to anyone except the ITM trolls. I don't think a concertina with accordion reeds is a real concertina. It doesn't have a real concertina sound. I see that you live in Napier. I have been to Napier. You have my deepest sympathy. I also see that you don't know what counterpoint is. Oh! How rude Shaunw. I see that you live in London... well at least that was where the "real" concertinas were made. Edited December 11, 2010 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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