First impressions on my Morbidoni 52-button konzertina

[MatthewVanitas]

As some may recall, this summer I picked up a Morbidoni Echo II concertina (apparently of the Chemnitzer variety) on eBay for around $400 or so. However, I was in Kandahar at the time, so the box has waited patiently at my cousin's place in Virginia until my return last weekend. I'd had some second thoughts on this box while over there, not sure whether it'd be some ghastly oom-pah-only device, horribly warbly, in bad shape, or whichever. But to my great relief, it's actually in pretty good shape overall, nice tone, handles well, and the Chemnitzer layout isn't quite as unintuitive as I'd feared.

 

 

Here's the right-hand side, so you get some idea for how the fingering as (conveniently) labeled. Anyone know where I can find a fingering chart which corresponds to this? I've figured out the Anglo-like keys in the very middle, and how some keys on the top row provide me notes in the opposite bellows direection (is there a term for that, push notes on the pull?), but most of the keys are still a mystery to me, especially ones that drop down when the keyboard is going up. There's also just one key that's slightly warbly in one direction, so might need to get that reed tweaked somehow.

 

 

 

Note also the air lever is snapped off (which the seller mentioned), but on closer inspection it's just a slab of wood and a small brass hinge. I just need to find a similar (or hopefully slightly sturdier) hinge to replace it.

 

 

 

I'm still getting the hang of how the fingering works out on this box, but I can vamp some basic chords and arpeggios, and I've figured out a few alternate keys to get me portions of the scale in one bellows direction. I'd welcome any insights or suggestions for how I can continue to figure this box out, and what tweaks I and improvements I should be looking at.

 

Here's a brief YouTube demo of me messing with the box:

 

Edited August 24, 2010 by MatthewVanitas

[Daniel Hersh]

Anyone know where I can find a fingering chart which corresponds to this? ... I'd welcome any insights or suggestions for how I can continue to figure this box out, and what tweaks I and improvements I should be looking at.

Fingering charts and more are here, courtesy of Chemnitzer expert Ted Kloba (who occasionally visits c.net).

[m3838]

Sounds very good. It seems like triple reeds MMH, with dry MM. Or like you said, it's MH, but not in unison octave.

Looks good too. A bit of 30s.

 

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Couple quick questions so far:

 

1) I clipped a little Intellitouch tuner onto the strap loop, and this box is indeed "5 push A" in key. Though I note most notes came about 20 above A=440 pitch. I reset the tuner for A=445 and most notes came in slightly flat. So not sure if the box is in A=442, or whether the slight wetness throws off the fineness of getting the basic pitch.

 

2) Speaking of such, how "wet" does this box sound in the YouTube clip? Sounds far drier than I expected, but I'm honestly not clear on, relatively speaking, how "wet" wet is. Being a strings guys, I mainly used to varying degrees of musette-ing doubled mandolin strings, but really unclear on how the bar is set for free reeds.

 

3) I cracked the box open; would these be single or double reeds? On the sets that have no exterior leather valve, is it missing, or is it just not needed there? I have very few notes that sound off at all, so it doesn't immediately seem like much is very wrong. I have one button in one direction on the right that's quite warbly, and on the left there's one key that in one direction sounds like only one reed, so maybe a clogged reed of the pair there. Here's a pic of the inside layout; these are accordion-style reeds vice bandoneon/chemnitzer/konzertina reeds, yes?

 

 

4) Any ideas where to find a tiny, .5" or so, hinge so I can reinstall my air lever? It's getting increasingly hard to play without it as I experiment with this box.

 

5) I looked at Mr Kloba's charts, and still a bit confused, partially as they're written somewhat vaguely since the boxes can be pitched in various keys. For example, the scale fingering charts just have the keys shaded in various shades of white/black, rather than labeled, and it takes some puzzling to figure out what order one plays the "black" keys in to get various diatonic scales. And even given that, the fingering variants used to play scales seem pretty spastic... no idea how intuitive they become with practice.

 

6) Though I have my doubts about the Chemnitzer system, in the end I reckon any bisonoric "big concertina" is pretty much equal to me. I don't have specific ambitions to play tango or polka, so as long as a box's tone and fingerings aren't so niche as to preclude other styles, I can probably make it work. My primary interests at this point are playing Shape Note music, and doing some basic chordal vamping for singing and avant-gardey stuff. If you've seen how Afghans use hand-pump harmoniums, I'm looking to use this box for something like that. So though I had been on the lookout for a bandoneon, this is probably equally good in a lot of ways. And if I get used to this fingering system, it appears that Upper Midwest "concertinas" are more affordable than bandoneones, being less "in" these days, so I might come out ahead getting a concertina and having it tuned up vice fighting over vintage bandoneones for tango on eBay.

 

Thanks for any tips/insight on the above.

[Theodore Kloba]

1) I clipped a little Intellitouch tuner onto the strap loop, and this box is indeed "5 push A" in key. Though I note most notes came about 20 above A=440 pitch. I reset the tuner for A=445 and most notes came in slightly flat. So not sure if the box is in A=442, or whether the slight wetness throws off the fineness of getting the basic pitch.

Well, 20 cents above 440Hz is just over 445 Hz, so it's probably close to that. From what I could tell in your video, the right hand seems to be octave-voiced (middle+low). This may be throwing the tuner off.

 

2) Speaking of such, how "wet" does this box sound in the YouTube clip? Sounds far drier than I expected, but I'm honestly not clear on, relatively speaking, how "wet" wet is. Being a strings guys, I mainly used to varying degrees of musette-ing doubled mandolin strings, but really unclear on how the bar is set for free reeds.

I think the wetness is just age-related out-of-tune-ness more than anything. Not very wet at all IMHO.

 

3) I cracked the box open; would these be single or double reeds? On the sets that have no exterior leather valve, is it missing, or is it just not needed there? I have very few notes that sound off at all, so it doesn't immediately seem like much is very wrong. I have one button in one direction on the right that's quite warbly, and on the left there's one key that in one direction sounds like only one reed, so maybe a clogged reed of the pair there. Here's a pic of the inside layout; these are accordion-style reeds vice bandoneon/chemnitzer/konzertina reeds, yes?

Definitely double reeds. The smallest ones typically don't have leather valves: The air you lose is worth it to get those reeds starting sooner. The style of reed & blocks is a lot like other Italian-made Chemnitzers and some American-made Chemnitzers from the 1950s through 1980s. (On my 1975-or-so Star double, the reeds are individual, waxed-in like this, but the blocks are glued to the board rather than clamped down with screws.)

 

4) Any ideas where to find a tiny, .5" or so, hinge so I can reinstall my air lever? It's getting increasingly hard to play without it as I experiment with this box.

A hardware, cabinetmakers' supply, or miniatures (a.k.a. dollhouse) supply should have it. If you have no local dealer, try a Google product search for "miniature butt hinge". You definitely need to get that fixed, since in normal playing it's used in just about every phrase.

 

5) I looked at Mr Kloba's charts, and still a bit confused, partially as they're written somewhat vaguely since the boxes can be pitched in varius keys. For example, the scale fingering charts just have the keys shaded in various shades of white/black, rather than labeled, and it takes some puzzling to figure out what order one plays the "black" keys in to get various diatonic scales. And even given that, the fingering variants used to play scales seem pretty spastic... no idea how intuitive they become with practice.

Actually, I discovered a little while ago that some damage happened to the PDFs when I changed web hosts. There should be a lot more information there. I haven't had a chance to find the source documents to recreate the PDFs. This is on my "to do" list right after some unplanned home renovations we had do after we had water damage.

 

In any case, if you look at the keyboard chart with "dots", it's correct, with the draw note on the left.

 

Regarding keys: Most Chemnitzer players treat the instrument as a transposing instrument like orchestral winds & brass: You notate #5 press as A, regardless of what concert-pitch note actually comes out of the instrument you're playing.

 

6) Though I have my doubts about the Chemnitzer system, in the end I reckon any bisonoric "big concertina" is pretty much equal to me. I don't have specific ambitions to play tango or polka, so as long as a box's tone and fingerings aren't so niche as to preclude other styles, I can probably make it work. My primary interests at this point are playing Shape Note music, and doing some basic chordal vamping for singing and avant-gardey stuff. If you've seen how Afghans use hand-pump harmoniums, I'm looking to use this box for something like that. So though I had been on the lookout for a bandoneon, this is probably equally good in a lot of ways. And if I get used to this fingering system, it appears that Upper Midwest "concertinas" are more affordable than bandoneones, being less "in" these days, so I might come out ahead getting a concertina and having it tuned up vice fighting over vintage bandoneones for tango on eBay.

 

Definitely you'll be able to use it for other than polka. Being an octave-voiced double helps give it a broader application since you can get a similar timbre out of each side.

 

You got a better deal on this one since most of the polka players want something that can be heard over drums or horns and so pick a quad.

 

PS: Love your YouTube handle (Jabberwockistan).

[MatthewVanitas]

I think the wetness is just age-related out-of-tune-ness more than anything. Not very wet at all IMHO.

 

Ah. But a full tune-up is like a $300 job (less on a double?), yes? So maybe best to use this as a beater, and if I get serious buy an old Star double and have it tuned up, and sell this to another noob?

 

 

Definitely double reeds. The smallest ones typically don't have leather valves: The air you lose is worth it to get those reeds starting sooner. The style of reed & blocks is a lot like other Italian-made Chemnitzers and some American-made Chemnitzers from the 1950s through 1980s. (On my 1975-or-so Star double, the reeds are individual, waxed-in like this, but the blocks are glued to the board rather than clamped down with screws.)

 

Glad the leather isn't just missing then. But these are "accordion style" reeds vice proper konzertina/bandoneon reeds I'd find in a nicer box?

 

Definitely you'll be able to use it for other than polka. Being an octave-voiced double helps give it a broader application since you can get a similar timbre out of each side.

 

You got a better deal on this one since most of the polka players want something that can be heard over drums or horns and so pick a quad.

 

Since big and warbly sound isn't my interest, I'm happy to pay less for an octave double. As mentioned above, if I do get more serious with this would refurbing an old American or German octave-double make sense? So far as fingering systems, for a non-polka/non-tango musician, is there really any great distinction between bandoneon and Chemnitzer system? That is, is it likely/plausible I'll end up saying "man, playing this Bach piece would be so much easier if I had layout X instead", or are they pretty much just arbitrarily slightly different? I know that bandoneons are usually played on the draw and Chemnitzers on the push, but does that at all mean it's more a pain to play Chemnitzers in minor modes, or do I just need to play a Chemnitzer on the draw to do darker stuff?

 

I'm still not finding it super-intuitive to play anything other than chord/arpeggio yet, and have to be pretty limited in key for the places I can play actual melodies, but that may come as I get better navigating the keyboard. The layout is still a bit baffling to me, but I figure it must sink in eventually.

 

 

PS: Love your YouTube handle (Jabberwockistan).

 

Thanks! And thanks for all the info. Though I'm sure I'll have yet more questions later. Though did have one small one: is the numbering on the keys somewhat arbitrary, or is there supposed to be a relationship between the numbers? And what do the asterisk and other symbols denote?

[Theodore Kloba]

But a full tune-up is like a $300 job (less on a double?), yes? So maybe best to use this as a beater, and if I get serious buy an old Star double and have it tuned up, and sell this to another noob?

 

I think this one's good enough to put some money into at least a touch-up tuning. Don't pay to bring it to A=440Hz unless you absolutely have to play with piano or some other "untuneable". BTW, getting a Star won't necessarily get you a better instrument. They had their good and bad periods as a manufacturer.

 

But these are "accordion style" reeds vice proper konzertina/bandoneon reeds I'd find in a nicer box?

 

You'll have a hard time finding a double in good playing condition with the "long-plate" reeds as they're known in Chemnitzer circles. It's also much easier to tune a "wax box" like this.

 

As mentioned above, if I do get more serious with this would refurbing an old American or German octave-double make sense?

 

Not necessarily. An old one will also probably have wooden key levers (which tend to warp and stick) with leather hinges on the valve pallets (which tend to dry out and crumble). An aluminum action with valve pallets attached on pins is pretty much indestructible and trouble-free, though heavy.

 

...is there really any great distinction between bandoneon and Chemnitzer system? That is, is it likely/plausible I'll end up saying "man, playing this Bach piece would be so much easier if I had layout X instead"

 

Mainly the difference is range. The Bandoneon system simply has more notes. If you're really planning on playing Bach organ works, you might run off the edge of the keyboard.

 

It's also flexibility on the left hand. Though you still can play just about any chord on a chemnitzer, bass melodies tend to require more bellows direction changes than they would on bandoneon.

 

I know that bandoneons are usually played on the draw

 

This is just a convention of Tango players, and a recent one at that if you look at historic film footage.

 

...and Chemnitzers on the push

 

Definitely not the case.

 

...but does that at all mean it's more a pain to play Chemnitzers in minor modes, or do I just need to play a Chemnitzer on the draw to do darker stuff?

 

Actually the interesting thing about minor chords on chemnitzer is they tend to be playable in either direction, whereas major chords tend to be easy in one direction and awkward in the other.

 

The layout is still a bit baffling to me, but I figure it must sink in eventually.

 

I don't quite know how, but somehow it does.

 

is the numbering on the keys somewhat arbitrary, or is there supposed to be a relationship between the numbers? And what do the asterisk and other symbols denote?

 

It's very arbitrary. 0 through 9 were the original 20-button keyboard. Other numbers were added as the layout was expanded with no particular logic.

 

BTW, I removed the defective PDFs from my site and placed a GIF file I had on hand of the basic chart. It doesn't look as nice, but it will be usable until I can fix the other files: Downloads

Edited September 3, 2010 by Theodore Kloba

[MatthewVanitas]

BTW, getting a Star won't necessarily get you a better instrument. They had their good and bad periods as a manufacturer. ...

 

You'll have a hard time finding a double in good playing condition with the "long-plate" reeds as they're known in Chemnitzer circles. It's also much easier to tune a "wax box" like this...

 

...An old one will also probably have wooden key levers (which tend to warp and stick) with leather hinges on the valve pallets (which tend to dry out and crumble). An aluminum action with valve pallets attached on pins is pretty much indestructible and trouble-free, though heavy.

 

Ah, this box may be a keeper for a while then! I'm down with low(er) maintenance, and not looking to fill a specific tonal niche leaves me pretty free. This box is slightly heavy for a little box, but I don't find it problematic, and the keys seem to respond pretty well for the price, bellows are sound, etc. Kind of a sharp-looking box too: not too plain, not too glitzy. Almost a little deco.

 

 

Mainly the difference is range. The Bandoneon system simply has more notes. If you're really planning on playing Bach organ works, you might run off the edge of the keyboard.

 

Ah, shouldn't be much of a problem. Even when I play classical-based stuff, I'm coming at it from a folk background. So if I play, say, Bach, I'm mostly just using the melody as a folk theme, playing it in whatever key is convenient, harmonising however seems to fit it, etc. So not so much a "dang, this box isn't conducive to playing this sonata in Eb" problem so much as a "I think if I play it in D and use root-fifth drones on the bass it'll sound cool" sort of thing.

 

I know that bandoneons are usually played on the draw

 

This is just a convention of Tango players, and a recent one at that if you look at historic film footage.

 

I did not know that! I just assumed it was because minor chords (and most tango sounding rather minor) would be easier on draw. Though that's mostly my one-row melodeon background talking. I still rather indelibly relate the Aeolian and Dorian as starting on the 2nds of the Mixolydian and Ionian modes, so a pretty strong association with "minor=draw" in my mind. Though, as you note, I'm swiftly finding I can play minor runs even on push on Chemnitzer.

 

 

It's very arbitrary. 0 through 9 were the original 20-button keyboard. Other numbers were added as the layout was expanded with no particular logic.

 

Fair enough, but when a button is labeled, say, 2/0, does that imply some relation with either 2 or 0? Also still can't figure what the + and the * denote.

 

 

BTW, I removed the defective PDFs from my site and placed a GIF file I had on hand of the basic chart. It doesn't look as nice, but it will be usable until I can fix the other files: Downloads

 

Finding your new .gif chart really helpful, though was baffled for a minute until I realised that draw and push are reversed on the left and right hands...

 

The chart you had before showing how to play scales (with the buttons grayscale shaded), I noted that the black-coloured buttons did sound all in the same key, but were there supposed to be numbers/letters telling in which order the buttons were meant to be played? I did it some by ear, but it's a bit trial-and-error when they're unmarked.

 

 

Thanks for the advice again. I'm probably going to be up in Quebec for a bit, but when I get back to DC it turns out there's an accordion/reeds tuner/repairer just 45 minutes away from me (Ike's Accordions), so I might have this box tuned up once I get back.

Edited September 4, 2010 by MatthewVanitas

[Theodore Kloba]

Fair enough, but when a button is labeled, say, 2/0, does that imply some relation with either 2 or 0? Also still can't figure what the + and the * denote.

 

The relationship is only in a physical layout sense, not a musical one:

 

On the left hand, the outer row of numbers (1/2, 2/3, ...) are numbered with the nearest adjacent buttons (e.g., 2/3 is next to 2 and 3).

 

On the right hand, as the keyboard expanded to the high end, they just kept increasing the numbers (though after 14, they went in diagonals instead of rows). To expand at the low end, they just did the x/0 series in rows.

 

I'm not sure why a later round of additions used non-numeric symbols (+, *, and the circled cross).

 

Finding your new .gif chart really helpful, though was baffled for a minute until I realised that draw and push are reversed on the left and right hands...

 

I decided to fix that in the new version I'm making. It carried over from an old printed version I have.

 

The chart you had before showing how to play scales (with the buttons grayscale shaded), I noted that the black-coloured buttons did sound all in the same key, but were there supposed to be numbers/letters telling in which order the buttons were meant to be played? I did it some by ear, but it's a bit trial-and-error when they're unmarked.

 

I've been trying unsuccessfully to find the source drawings for those PDFs. I honestly don't remember how they worked. They seemed like a good idea when I made them, but I never really used them.

 

Thanks for the advice again. I'm probably going to be up in Quebec for a bit, but when I get back to DC it turns out there's an accordion/reeds tuner/repairer just 45 minutes away from me (Ike's Accordions), so I might have this box tuned up once I get back.

 

Ike Milligan used to be (and may still be) an active contributor on the rec.music.makers.squeezebox newsgroup. Since you have accordion style reedblocks, he should do a good job. IIRC, he didn't work on "long-plate" reeds.

[Theodore Kloba]

The PDF chart with notes on staff is updated. I had to completely redraw it since I lost my source documents. I think it's beter than it was. The position of press and draw is the same for left and right now.

[MatthewVanitas]

I over-vacillated, and at the last minute decided to take my Elise Hayden to Quebec for a month instead of my Morbidoni, reckoning the former is smaller, cheaper, and more replaceable if lost/stolen/damaged while wandering around aimlessly. When I came to this decision, I was living about 20min from Ike's Accordions, but didn't manage to get a hold of him early enough to drop the Chemnitzer off with him to be tuned while I'm traveling. So might need to get a tune-up done upon my return.

 

The Chemnitzer system is becoming more accessible as I chipped away at it, and got more adept at finding notes in opposite bellows directions, etc. However, I'm still a bit unclear as to how one prioritises fingerings, and what's beset to do with the left hand. I'd been using the left hand mainly for playing chords to back a melody on the right hand (which is largely what I do on Hayden duet), however it seems the 52-button Chemnitzer has way more overlap between notes and way less range than a duet concertina, so it's almost like having two very similar sides vice having a bass side and a treble side. Do Chemnitzer players do more of "harmony left, melody right" trick, or is it more evenly split? Any advice on how best to figure where to pitch a given tune when arranging it?

 

In the short term, I'm mainly focusing on playing hymns, in keeping with the original intended market for such boxes, and because it's a genre where I'm familiar with some of the harmonic conventions. Any tips on how Chemnitzer players choose they key they play in (and accordingly whether to play a given tune more in push or draw) would be great, as well as general advice on how the left vs. right hand relationship works out.

 

I'm still greatly favouring my Hayden duet over the Anglo and English systems I've tried before, but for the big square konzertias, I'm finding myself unexpectedly pleased with this Chemnitzer, though I will be leaving it behind for 6 weeks or so to travel light, with only my Elise, a Tangi sopranino (super-small) ukulele, and my Swedish sackpipa for busking and such.

[m3838]

However, I'm still a bit unclear as to how one prioritises fingerings, and what's beset to do with the left hand.

Seems like your bellows direction should be dependent of finding appropriate chords on the left. Like the Anglo concertina. Basically Chemnitzer is simply a big Anglo.

 

 

it seems the 52-button Chemnitzer has way more overlap between notes and way less range than a duet concertina, so it's almost like having two very similar sides vice having a bass side and a treble side.

Again, seems like a clever idea.

Accordions have adapted similar approach. It's been noticed that low notes don't sound too well together, so in Accordion you have low basses and high chords. You can use your overlaps for the same trick or play duets.

It has also been noted that most expressiveness comes from playing on the draw. So much so, that mexicans play on the draw most of the time and remove all the basses. They use bass buttons as one huge air valve to bring bellows back together again. Astor Piazzola has been playing mostly on the draw, not letting bellows to extend too much and using air valve skillfully.

 

 

 

 

[Theodore Kloba]

However, I'm still a bit unclear as to how one prioritises fingerings, and what's beset to do with the left hand. I'd been using the left hand mainly for playing chords to back a melody on the right hand (which is largely what I do on Hayden duet)

 

I think that's what most players do. I think I mentioned before that most left hand chords have a preferred bellows direction; I let that dictate bellows motion and work the right hand fingering out from there.

 

A lot of what I play comes from fake book/lead sheet notation, or piano with chord symbols, so in the easier keys of G, D & A (sometimes C), sight reading is doable.

 

, however it seems the 52-button Chemnitzer has way more overlap between notes and way less range than a duet concertina, so it's almost like having two very similar sides vice having a bass side and a treble side.

 

That's a side effect of the mid-low octave voicing on your concertina's right hand.

 

You really have to play with a light hand on the bass side to keep it from sounding too muddy.

 

Do Chemnitzer players do more of "harmony left, melody right" trick, or is it more evenly split?

 

Well, the polka players do bass & chords on left, with melody on the right. For slower phrases, the right hand will usually add a parallel 3rd or 6th harmony.

 

Any advice on how best to figure where to pitch a given tune when arranging it?

 

In the short term, I'm mainly focusing on playing hymns, in keeping with the original intended market for such boxes, and because it's a genre where I'm familiar with some of the harmonic conventions. Any tips on how Chemnitzer players choose they key they play in (and accordingly whether to play a given tune more in push or draw) would be great, as well as general advice on how the left vs. right hand relationship works out.

 

Selecting the pitch and selecting the key are interconnected. For major-key tunes without a lot of "surprise" chords, I usually try to play it in the key written if I have the range. Otherwise, I tend to transpose into G or D, whichever will fit the range. For more complex harmonies, I might just try it in a few keys to see how it feels.