Sharron Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 Maybe this should be in the Tunes section but as it is more general I have stuck it here. I am getting stuck looking for cds of Irish players......preferably minimum accompaniment.......of a style that I find hard to describe. I like the melody to shine through and not be hampered by lots of chords and ornamentation. But I don't care too much for the overly *plain* style of some very good players. I like to hear the tune but have the added bonus of decoration that the concertina lends itself to. Some cds seem to be so overdone in decoration that the tune gets lost, yet other players have so little decoration that it doesn't appeal to me. On Henk's site I noticed a barn dance played by Tim Collins and that is in a style that appeals to me. Plenty variations, melody is well in front and the decoration tastefully done. There must be plenty of you with cds that you know *won't* fit the bill for me and that is also very important as it means I won't be wasting money. I do not want to offend any players so please tell me of the ones you think I might be interested in buying and as for the ones I shouldn't buy.....well email or PM me. I don't have many concertina cds as yet but I do have over 400 irish ones, mainly fiddle or box. Now of those 400 I probably only play on a regular basis about 20 of them. So really I have sorted the *wheat from the chaff* but an expensive journey. I don't want to do the same with concertina cds, so give me a hand out there in concertinaland Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 First of all, you should tell us who specifically you've listened to that doesn't fit your bill, and why. There should be no embarrassment in stating personal preferences, but to help you, we should know the details. E.g., which of the following have you heard, and how do you classify them (too simple, too complex, just right)? ... Mrs. Crotty ... Noel Hill ... Mary McNamara ... John Williams ... Niall Vallely ...... etc. I think that there are some additional cuts of both Tim Collins and others on Jürgen Suttner's web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 Well that is the problem Jim...I don't want to offend or cause people to defend their choices. Personal choice is just that and people can get mighty prickly. That is why I suggested that tell me what you think I might like and what I won't like by email or PM through the site. Posts only for nice ones though. Some are too plain a style. Some way too fancy. Tim Collins has a style I quite like from what I have heard. I don't want to say too much more as I am a youngster in the concertina camp. With playing fiddle there are styles that I admire.......but the concertina has to be played differently or else why bother learning? So I am on the hunt for tunes learned from cds in the styles that I find different but suitable for the concertina but played in a way that makes the tunes feel that they were made for concertina. I play in Irish sessions so it must be traditional too. Corr a real tall order eh? Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 1, 2004 Author Share Posted June 1, 2004 (edited) Who the heck is Tim Collins anyway? Tell me ...... Sharron Edited June 1, 2004 by Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Who the heck is Tim Collins anyway? Tell me ...... Sharron I know both Timmy Collins, and his brother Michael (tenor banjo & guitar), who are from West Limerick (a ferry ride across the Shannon Estuary from Co. Clare). Both are former pupils of my old friend Con Herbert. Timmy is the concertina player with the renowned Kilfenora Ceilidh Band, from North Clare (and he isn't even a Clareman - some testimony to the quality of his playing !), and he is the head teacher at the Mrs. Crotty Weekend in Kilrush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well that is the problem Jim...I don't want to offend or cause people to defend their choices. Well hey, what if I say that your timidity offends me? You see, you really can't win, no matter what you do. So why not just be open and honest about your taste? Personal choice is just that and people can get mighty prickly. As most people here know by now, I think that if people are prickly, that's their problem, not mine. There are just too many species of cactus for me to keep track of them all, even if they carried botanical labels, which they don't. Besides, who do you expect to become offended? Do you think Niall Vallely will become "prickly" if you think his playing is too complex or ornamented for your own taste... or perhaps your own competence? He has much better things to do. Niall Vallely fans? Well, I'm one, but I certainly won't hold it against you if your musical taste differs from mine. (The fact that you play anglo instead of English is another story... just kidding! ) Do you think Mrs. Crotty will be upset if you think her playing is too simple? She's dead, and I doubt that she would haunt you over it. Her fans? Well, Tim Collins is one of them, and I know he won't give you a hard time about it, even if he isn't aware that you love his own playing. Some folks prefer "Irish style" on the anglo, and some prefer "English style", but I don't see many of them getting "prickly" over it. Curious, sometimes, but not prickly. But what I would expect to make people "prickly" is being asked to make suggestions that match your tastes without your telling us what those tastes are. You set us an impossible task. If you want us to help you narrow your search, we really need some idea of where your search has already led you and what you thought of the scenery. Some are too plain a style.Which ones?Some way too fancy.Which ones?Tim Collins has a style I quite like from what I have heard.This is a useful data point, but one isn't enough. Really, if you won't tell us more about your personal taste, then you're doing both yourself and us a disservice. So please, show some self confidence and tell us what you've found not to be "right" for you, and why. Then we can make helpful suggestions, and I'm sure many will, but otherwise we really can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Thanks Stephen for the information on Tim Collins.......does he feature on cd by any chance? I am off to Dublin in a couple of weeks so wanted to have a little list of what to shop for while there. Jim.....Sorry but as everyone can hear the clips on Henks site...thanks Henk...I think the style i am after is not up for question. I can be perfectly honest about my taste on private level.....but I still think that if I said I disliked a certain persons playing it would not be the artist that would be offended but rather the people buying their cds. So I am keeping quiet on that one Sharron ps thanks for the mails so far you guys.....you are sure helping my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Perhaps Sharron wants to play music and not join the C.net debate team? One of the wonderful things about this forum is different people sharing different ideas and different approaches to playing concertina and music. This exchange of ideas and information depends on a modicum of respect and tolerance. Respect for other peoples' differing opinions and approaches. Tolerance in recognizing you may have already traveled a similar road and that someone else is making the journey. So I respect Sharron's request to acquire some information without debate. And I think Jim may have a point that sharing information and encouraging discussion is what makes this forum so enjoyable. I hope we can keep this arena a fun place for discussion. Regards to all, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Sharron, Its very difficult to pin down exactly what you are after, as you seem to have already looked around a bit. I listened to one of the tracks on the Suttner site, and its quite like Mary MacNamara to me - although no two players are ever the same. At the risk of my looking stupid, have you gone through the c.net music section which covers most. Would any there take your fancy? There aren't that many concertina recordings available, and I think you are more likely to be able to hear concertina played the way Tim plays in small informal sessions rather than in recordings or performances. So make sure you take some kind of recorder on your trip! best wishes ..wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Yep Greg you hit the nail on the proverbial head....I don't want to debate. I love debates normally but not when it concerns personal feelings, and I think music is a very personal thing. It's not like I don't like jelly babies and you do.....it can come across as a criticism of someones playing style......and that is not nice. The track that interests me in the way that it is played is the 3rd one down on Henks site http://home.planet.nl/~aalte099/links.htm Now it may well not appeal to some and that is fine. As I keep saying it is a personal thing. All I am asking is that if you know of cds with a similar style let me know what they are.......and ones which don't fit the bill email or PM me so I don't make another expensive mistake buying one I won't like versus one that I would. If anyone wanted to know about cds for irish button box or fiddle, etc. I have enough expensive mistakes to prevent anyone making more for themselves, their taste may be different from mine, but I am sure I would know which ones they should get and others to stay away from, depending on styles they like. Thanks Wes......yes I have looked at the site and bought cds because of what I have heard......but a lot of cds have a lot of accompaniment and I like to hear these tunes played in the raw Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 The track that interests me in the way that it is played is the 3rd one down on Henks sitehttp://home.planet.nl/~aalte099/links.htm Sharron, The same tune can be heard (and seen!) as played by Gerdie Commane. Just click http://www.custysmusic.com/mall/CustysTrad...die_commane.htm Coming back to what you are looking for: maybe Chris Droney (The Fertile Rock) is what you are looking for(?) Personally I like the CD's of Mary McNamara. In my opinion she very often finds the right balance between the main melody line and embellishments. On top of that her playing speed is very relaxed and as a result it gives me the idea: "one day.. I can play almost like her!" On the other hand, I admire the playing skills of players like Noel Hill and Nial Vallely. I am impressed by their playing speed and embellishments, but it sometimes goes at the cost of the main melody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Sharron, from going through the posts on this Topic, I'm not at all sure that you'll be able to find what you want on a commercial CD. E.g., if you found that one cut of Tim Collins to be "right", but his others not to be what you're looking for, it really narrows the field. And what about Tom Lawrence's recordings? At least they're without other, accompanying instruments that might obscure what he's doing. (Yes, he's playing an A/E, but that can be adjusted.) If they're not right for you, are they too simple or too complex? (You don't have to say you "don't like" them, especially if the truth is that they're just not at the level you're currently working at.) It sounds to me that what you're really looking for is not so much something to listen to, but something that you personally can learn from at your current stage of development. If that's the case, and if you already have the available tutor tapes and CD's, you might really want to ask members of Concertina.net to submit things to Henk's list that they think might help. In my estimation, commercial performance CD's are unlikely to meet your needs. C.net members, on the other hand, can be both talented and helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Hi Jim All of Tims recordings are fine by me, I just especially like what he has done on the barndance. As for learning tunes from cds........well of course I do.......most irish trad musicians I know do so too. I see no point in learning tunes in a style I don't particularly want to play in. I have lots of cds with multiple choices I can make of the same tune.....it is really interesting to listen to the same tunes played on a dozen or so different recordings. Some appeal and others make you wonder why it would ever appeal. Different keys are not a problem and are easily sorted as long as you know what key would be played in most sessions.......been caught out loads of times on that one ......so frustrating to learn a tune that you like to hear in a certain key and then find out no-one plays it in that key........even worse to realise that you don't like it in the correct key and you wouldn't have learnt it in the first place if you had realised My cd listening has changed over the last few years to listening for a different purpose I suppose.......hunting out really great tunes or settings of tunes and styles of playing of even the most common of tunes. No point in hearing a tune going round and round in my head to the point of wanting to get an instrument out and play it if it can't be played in a session setting. I only have enough time to learn tunes that I want to hear being played because I enjoy how they sound. Sooooo..........that is why I need to buy more cds and know if they are in a style I would like to play in and hear being played. As for Tom's playing well although I can appreciate what he is doing it is not for me, just a little too much ornamentation. See what you have made me do now Jim I will have to go undercover Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomlaw90 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I take no offense From my listening to the clips of Tim it sounds like he has a pumping rhythmic way of playing, but with minimal chords and a light but strategically chosen set of twiddles. Unfortunately I've only heard O'Raghallaigh play with that kind of rhythm, and he is anything but light when it comes to twiddles Tom Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 No offense intended Tom. I like the Sligo style of fiddle playing......but then again only certain players within that style......the style is rich in ornamentation but once again I am in between camps.....too much versus too little for me. Sitting on the fence again leaning one way and then another but then it's a woman's perogative I like O'Raghallaigh's style too, but a little heavy in parts for me.......oh **** I have done it again. Running for cover Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Bradbury Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Just a thought, but you might take a listen to Jackie Daly. "Music from Sliabh Luachra" or a couple of cut on the "Eavesdropper" recording with Kevin Burke. There could be some tunes you would find interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I will have to go undercover Hmm. I still haven't noticed any snipers. Maybe I should take off the dark glasses? Nope. I still don't see any. ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 Got all of Jackie Daly's stuff and have done a couple of reels of the Music from Sliabh Luachra cd. His style lends itself to be an easy learning experience. I listen to a lot of box cds so am familiar with the sound and ornamentation/style of playing and it varies greatly, if anything a lot more than concertina playing. Interesting to find a box/concertina player, I wonder if there are many? Thanks Henk for the link. The cds you mentioned Henk are the two extremes for me......I want something in the middle. Sharron.......still ducking for cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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