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How to add accompanying chords to melody


Ubik

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Hi friends, I am studying my hayden duet with first good sounds attempt. If you have to accompany a melody with chords or base line, any special way to make it? Or justtake the last melody note as accompanying tonic note?

tablature has chords of course but maybe thats not the way to go?thanks for pinting me to theory tutorials or just indicate harmony tricks for concertina, Many thanx

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That is a huge question, people study lifetimes and write books about it.

 

But for me, the simple answer is, if you're playing by yourself, just experiment and find what sounds good. If you're playing with others, find what chords they're using, and use their chords (or select notes from them that sound good to you). The more you do both of those things, the better you'll get at them, but it'll probably take a while.

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For me, the simple answer is, if you're playing by yourself, just experiment and find what sounds good. If you're playing with others, find what chords they're using, and use their chords (or select notes from them that sound good to you). The more you do both of those things, the better you'll get at them, but it'll probably take a while.

This can work (and Jeff/Boney's playing shows that it can lead to a great sound) but more systematic approaches are possible too. I begin by identifying what chord I want to play (especially for the "on" beats, such as beats 1 and 3 in 4/4 time), start with the tonic note (C for a C chord, etc.) and add notes that I think will work well for the off beats or to be played at the same time as the tonic note. I identify the chords by ear, but it's certainly possible to use tablature chords too. If you take this approach, bear in mind that chord substitutions are often possible (such as an Am for a C in some instances) to make your arrangement more interesting.

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Yes, this is a big and interesting question to me. I think a good way to start is just by doing what's as simple as possible that sounds good. A systematic approach can be useful too, but I feel like too many people use standard chords and theory as a substitute for their own ear and experimenting. If you can strike a balance between both, that's great. I may be naive, but I feel like so many musicians (even amazing ones) are too stuck on a "what chord goes where" mindset. Some Anglo players come up with interesting, somewhat quirky arrangements partially because they don't think in a rigid chord structure. I get that feeling from Alan Day's playing, for example.

 

Anyway, I'd like to hear other thoughts and approaches. I like to steal ideas from as many people as possible.

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Here's another trick:

 

Watch the guitarist.

 

Seriously. If you don't know what the common chords (C, G, D, A, E, A minor, E minor, B minor, for example) look like, learn to recognize them.

 

Also: Learn how to use the I, IV, and V chords in the common keys. Then learn how (and when) to substitute vi minor for I, iii minor for V, and ii minor for IV (each of these minor chords is a 3rd below the major chord it replaces). Then start adding sevenths.

 

Google "circle of fifths" and take what you find there to heart.

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Is there a comprehensive chord guide for concertinas such as for piano? I have seen some basic chord guides for concertina on the web, but nothing that covers complex or extended chords such as Bm7b5. I have been using a chord guide for piano, but you have to figure out where the corresponding notes are on the concertina. Also, I rarely play the complete chord, just enough of the chord to imply the overall chord tone, such as root and third or root and fifth. I play English, not duet, so I don't know how well this applies to duet, but I would think the general approach would be similar.

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david's advice is good. first learn how to make all the chords without melodies. practice them the following way:

 

I, IV, V, I. repeat. then go up to the next key and repeat. do this every day. it should get you used to finding the chords. do it on both hands, too! (an alternative way could be I, IV, I, V, I). you can potentially do a full triad plus the octave with each hand. this would be in the key of C: left[CEGc] and right[cegc']

 

then, when you have a good basis with it, start adding them into tunes. a neat trick is leaving out some of the notes in the chord to change the coloring. this could be leaving out the third, i.e. in a C chord [CEG] just play [CG] together. etc etc.

 

i think it is essential to be able to the chords BY THEMSELVES before putting them into tunes.

 

so the next question is where do you put each chord? well, David (above) alluded to the trick I am about to describe.

 

 

the C scale broken down into the I, IV, V trick, with the melody note on the left and the chord on the right:

 

C: play a I chord, [CEG]

D: play a V chord, [GBD]

E: play a I chord, [CEG]

F: play a IV chord, [FAC]

G: play a V chord, [GBD]

A: play a IV chord, [FAC]

B: play a V chord, [GBD]

c: play a I chored, [CEG]

 

there is usually no need to change chords on EVERY melody note. a good place to start is consider the first note of every measure, then the first note of every half a measure, or down beat. after you get this down, as David said, then you can start learning about minor chords, 7ths, and then on and on...

 

hope that helps!

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Is there a comprehensive chord guide for concertinas such as for piano? I have seen some basic chord guides for concertina on the web, but nothing that covers complex or extended chords such as Bm7b5. I have been using a chord guide for piano, but you have to figure out where the corresponding notes are on the concertina. Also, I rarely play the complete chord, just enough of the chord to imply the overall chord tone, such as root and third or root and fifth. I play English, not duet, so I don't know how well this applies to duet, but I would think the general approach would be similar.

 

i don't play english myself, so i don't know. i would say that you'll learn better if you figure it out yourself! try making your own chart. the more you are engaged in information, the better it tends to be learnt. you could just do it by hand, or if you're adventurous use the computer.

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the C scale broken down into the I, IV, V trick, with the melody note on the left and the chord on the right:

 

C: play a I chord, [CEG]

D: play a V chord, [GBD]

E: play a I chord, [CEG]

F: play a IV chord, [FAC]

G: play a V chord, [GBD]

A: play a IV chord, [FAC]

B: play a V chord, [GBD]

c: play a I chored, [CEG]

While I have no argument with any of this, I think it is important to keep in mind that often it is better to think horizontally (what story am I telling with my chord progressions) than vertically (what cluster of notes are playing at this given instant). That's where the circle of 5ths comes in: I - vi - ii - V - I is such a strong progression that it often works even if the melody notes don't seem to support it.

 

Is there a comprehensive chord guide for concertinas such as for piano? I have seen some basic chord guides for concertina on the web, but nothing that covers complex or extended chords such as Bm7b5. I have been using a chord guide for piano, but you have to figure out where the corresponding notes are on the concertina. Also, I rarely play the complete chord, just enough of the chord to imply the overall chord tone, such as root and third or root and fifth. I play English, not duet, so I don't know how well this applies to duet, but I would think the general approach would be similar.

i don't play english myself, so i don't know. i would say that you'll learn better if you figure it out yourself! try making your own chart. the more you are engaged in information, the better it tends to be learnt. you could just do it by hand, or if you're adventurous use the computer.

I thought we were talking about Haydens here. There is very little available for Haydens. What there is can be found here but it doesn't specifically address your question.

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the C scale broken down into the I, IV, V trick, with the melody note on the left and the chord on the right:

 

C: play a I chord, [CEG]

D: play a V chord, [GBD]

E: play a I chord, [CEG]

F: play a IV chord, [FAC]

G: play a V chord, [GBD]

A: play a IV chord, [FAC]

B: play a V chord, [GBD]

c: play a I chored, [CEG]

While I have no argument with any of this, I think it is important to keep in mind that often it is better to think horizontally (what story am I telling with my chord progressions) than vertically (what cluster of notes are playing at this given instant). That's where the circle of 5ths comes in: I - vi - ii - V - I is such a strong progression that it often works even if the melody notes don't seem to support it.

 

Is there a comprehensive chord guide for concertinas such as for piano? I have seen some basic chord guides for concertina on the web, but nothing that covers complex or extended chords such as Bm7b5. I have been using a chord guide for piano, but you have to figure out where the corresponding notes are on the concertina. Also, I rarely play the complete chord, just enough of the chord to imply the overall chord tone, such as root and third or root and fifth. I play English, not duet, so I don't know how well this applies to duet, but I would think the general approach would be similar.

i don't play english myself, so i don't know. i would say that you'll learn better if you figure it out yourself! try making your own chart. the more you are engaged in information, the better it tends to be learnt. you could just do it by hand, or if you're adventurous use the computer.

I thought we were talking about Haydens here. There is very little available for Haydens. What there is can be found here but it doesn't specifically address your question.

 

THANX so much to everyone that helped me. Meanwhile you were writing responses I was giving a try to use the tablature indicated chords. Three notes chords seems to fill the melody too much. in other words would like to hear it more than this. Therefore I picked up some notes from the melody and used them (one octave below is fine or should be 2 octaves below?) on the left hand playing one note only as harmony and changing it with a new note every 4-5 noted of the melody. Of course I use my ear to see what stands apparently well. The point is that I only play one note which is not anymore a chord but at least I can hear the melody emerging very well. Is this fine in some extent? Is it ok to play this note 1 octave below or should it be 2 octave below? Of course I can use the ear but indications might help. Cheers

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The point is that I only play one note which is not anymore a chord but at least I can hear the melody emerging very well. Is this fine in some extent?

Good. That's the point I was making above about thinking horizontally.

 

Is it ok to play this note 1 octave below or should it be 2 octave below?

I often find my left hand playing a tenth (that is, an octave + a 3rd) below the melody. So in G, if the melody plays BAG in the middle octave (the lowst right octave) the left hand plays GF#E (or just GE) in the lowest left octave. That way you rarely have to play 3rds with the left hand, just bounce around on open 5ths. I would avoid mirroring the melody one or two octaves below on the left hand for more than one note in succession.

 

Of course I can use the ear but indications might help.

Indeed.

 

Edited to add:

 

Here's a simple example with a familiar tune:

 

post-65-12783720822894_thumb.jpg

 

Wherever the left hand is a 10th below the right hand I've colored the notes red.

Edited by David Barnert
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the C scale broken down into the I, IV, V trick, with the melody note on the left and the chord on the right:

 

C: play a I chord, [CEG]

D: play a V chord, [GBD]

E: play a I chord, [CEG]

F: play a IV chord, [FAC]

G: play a V chord, [GBD]

A: play a IV chord, [FAC]

B: play a V chord, [GBD]

c: play a I chored, [CEG]

While I have no argument with any of this, I think it is important to keep in mind that often it is better to think horizontally (what story am I telling with my chord progressions) than vertically (what cluster of notes are playing at this given instant). That's where the circle of 5ths comes in: I - vi - ii - V - I is such a strong progression that it often works even if the melody notes don't seem to support it.

 

i agree that your way is the most ideal way of going about it. however, i included the short-sighted example, as sometimes people need a kick-start when they get overwhelmed with music theory. i have had students who know nothing about music theory, and have difficulty understanding that a G chord is a V chord in the key of C but a I chord in the key of G.

 

to everyone else: my way does in fact lead to a very dark, treacherous dead end, :blink: so, please listen to my advice in the context of david barnert's comments.

 

Is there a comprehensive chord guide for concertinas such as for piano? I have seen some basic chord guides for concertina on the web, but nothing that covers complex or extended chords such as Bm7b5. I have been using a chord guide for piano, but you have to figure out where the corresponding notes are on the concertina. Also, I rarely play the complete chord, just enough of the chord to imply the overall chord tone, such as root and third or root and fifth. I play English, not duet, so I don't know how well this applies to duet, but I would think the general approach would be similar.

i don't play english myself, so i don't know. i would say that you'll learn better if you figure it out yourself! try making your own chart. the more you are engaged in information, the better it tends to be learnt. you could just do it by hand, or if you're adventurous use the computer.

I thought we were talking about Haydens here. There is very little available for Haydens. What there is can be found here but it doesn't specifically address your question.

 

the original poster was asking about haydens. however, if you look again at who i was responding to, they were asking about english concertina.

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Hi friends, I am studying my hayden duet with first good sounds attempt. If you have to accompany a melody with chords or base line, any special way to make it? Or justtake the last melody note as accompanying tonic note?

tablature has chords of course but maybe thats not the way to go?thanks for pinting me to theory tutorials or just indicate harmony tricks for concertina, Many thanx

 

Ubik,

I recently took up the duet (Crane) after years of Anglo playing. Realising that sight reading is much easier for the duet (one note, one button!), I decided to practise it on tunes that I had never heard before (if I've heard a tune, I play it by ear, so it's not a sight-reading exercise!)

 

So I got an old German song-book, the kind with just the melody line in standard notation and chord symbols printed over the stave. From Brian Hayden's generic duet tutorial, I identified the major and minor chords, and got my fingers trained to change among them. Then I played the notated melody on the right and the indicated chords on the left. Sounded quite nice, but a bit heavy! Then I learned to press the three buttons of the chord separately (oom-pah), and further discovered that two-note chords (omitting the 3rd or the 5th of the chord) sounded better in some circumstances.

 

I also noticed that where the song-book indicated a dominant seventh (e.g. a D7 in a tune in G major), just the dominant major chord (e.g. a D major in a G tune) was often enough. And that, where a dominant seventh sounded better, it was better to add the flattened 7th (e.g. the high C in a D7 chord) on the right hand, below the melody, rather than low down on the left hand.

 

I've been playing chording instruments (guitar, 5-string banjo and, above all, autoharp) for a long time, so I can often harmonise by ear (or by force of habit, if you like). But the best way to get into this habit is to play from a song-book with chord symbols. With a bit of practise, you'll learn to hear where the chord changes should be in familiar tunes, and soon be able to hear them in new tunes, too.

 

For a start, just learn the chords associated with the key of C major: C, F, G, G7, Am, Dm & Em (with the F note of the G7 chord on the RH side!)

 

When you feel comfortable with C major tunes, go for G major. You only have to add three new chords: D, D7 & Bm.

 

The next step would be F major. Again, only three new chords: C7, Bb and Gm.

 

Keep on going round the Circle of Fifths, i.e. taking a key with just one sharp or one flat more than the keys you already know. This way, you'll only need three new chords for each new key, and you'll always be able to handle those tunes that modulate up a fifth at some point.

 

Leafing through my old German song-book, I see no tunes with more than four sharps (E major) or more than two flats (Bb major) in the key signature, and most have one flat, one or two sharps, or no sharps/flats - i.e. they are in the keys of F, C, G or D major. (I believe these are the keys that are playable on an "Elise".) Your song-book may differ, but probably not much - arrangements with chord symbols are mostly made with guitarists in mind, and they prefer "sharp" keys!

 

Basically, my duet technique is like guitar and mandolin technique rolled into one. For the left hand, I learn the chord shapes I need for each key, and for the right hand I learn the corresponding scales. This gives you the "bare bones". A good exercise is to just play up and down the scale with the RH and harmonise each note with the LH. You can then play around with the rhythmic treatment of the chords, and with thinning them out.

 

On the Hayden, allegedly, you only have to learn the scale once and then move it around for other scales - but at some point, you run off the end sad.gif ! I suppose it's always like that - if you make one aspect easier, another aspect becomes more difficult! But, basically, duet is duet.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

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Hi friends, I am studying my hayden duet with first good sounds attempt. If you have to accompany a melody with chords or base line, any special way to make it? Or justtake the last melody note as accompanying tonic note?

tablature has chords of course but maybe thats not the way to go?thanks for pinting me to theory tutorials or just indicate harmony tricks for concertina, Many thanx

 

Ubik,

I recently took up the duet (Crane) after years of Anglo playing. Realising that sight reading is much easier for the duet (one note, one button!), I decided to practise it on tunes that I had never heard before (if I've heard a tune, I play it by ear, so it's not a sight-reading exercise!)

 

So I got an old German song-book, the kind with just the melody line in standard notation and chord symbols printed over the stave. From Brian Hayden's generic duet tutorial, I identified the major and minor chords, and got my fingers trained to change among them. Then I played the notated melody on the right and the indicated chords on the left. Sounded quite nice, but a bit heavy! Then I learned to press the three buttons of the chord separately (oom-pah), and further discovered that two-note chords (omitting the 3rd or the 5th of the chord) sounded better in some circumstances.

 

I also noticed that where the song-book indicated a dominant seventh (e.g. a D7 in a tune in G major), just the dominant major chord (e.g. a D major in a G tune) was often enough. And that, where a dominant seventh sounded better, it was better to add the flattened 7th (e.g. the high C in a D7 chord) on the right hand, below the melody, rather than low down on the left hand.

 

I've been playing chording instruments (guitar, 5-string banjo and, above all, autoharp) for a long time, so I can often harmonise by ear (or by force of habit, if you like). But the best way to get into this habit is to play from a song-book with chord symbols. With a bit of practise, you'll learn to hear where the chord changes should be in familiar tunes, and soon be able to hear them in new tunes, too.

 

For a start, just learn the chords associated with the key of C major: C, F, G, G7, Am, Dm & Em (with the F note of the G7 chord on the RH side!)

 

When you feel comfortable with C major tunes, go for G major. You only have to add three new chords: D, D7 & Bm.

 

The next step would be F major. Again, only three new chords: C7, Bb and Gm.

 

Keep on going round the Circle of Fifths, i.e. taking a key with just one sharp or one flat more than the keys you already know. This way, you'll only need three new chords for each new key, and you'll always be able to handle those tunes that modulate up a fifth at some point.

 

Leafing through my old German song-book, I see no tunes with more than four sharps (E major) or more than two flats (Bb major) in the key signature, and most have one flat, one or two sharps, or no sharps/flats - i.e. they are in the keys of F, C, G or D major. (I believe these are the keys that are playable on an "Elise".) Your song-book may differ, but probably not much - arrangements with chord symbols are mostly made with guitarists in mind, and they prefer "sharp" keys!

 

Basically, my duet technique is like guitar and mandolin technique rolled into one. For the left hand, I learn the chord shapes I need for each key, and for the right hand I learn the corresponding scales. This gives you the "bare bones". A good exercise is to just play up and down the scale with the RH and harmonise each note with the LH. You can then play around with the rhythmic treatment of the chords, and with thinning them out.

 

On the Hayden, allegedly, you only have to learn the scale once and then move it around for other scales - but at some point, you run off the end sad.gif ! I suppose it's always like that - if you make one aspect easier, another aspect becomes more difficult! But, basically, duet is duet.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

 

 

Dear John, yes it helps a lot. Thanxs so much. I am learning the annexed song Arthur from Eric Theze. As you can see it has quite a number of chords to learn. Instead and also due to the fullness a 3 notes chord brings I as well prefer 1 note only. I am practicing which one to choose but my ear says that your indication makes sense. I am very happy I decided to go for the hayden and unisonoric Concertina, this really helps and makes the learning curve a joy to practice. If you consider that after 3 hrs of practice I can almosttely play the right hand.....Cheers

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Hi friends, I am studying my hayden duet with first good sounds attempt. If you have to accompany a melody with chords or base line, any special way to make it? Or justtake the last melody note as accompanying tonic note?

tablature has chords of course but maybe thats not the way to go?thanks for pinting me to theory tutorials or just indicate harmony tricks for concertina, Many thanx

 

Ubik,

I recently took up the duet (Crane) after years of Anglo playing. Realising that sight reading is much easier for the duet (one note, one button!), I decided to practise it on tunes that I had never heard before (if I've heard a tune, I play it by ear, so it's not a sight-reading exercise!)

 

So I got an old German song-book, the kind with just the melody line in standard notation and chord symbols printed over the stave. From Brian Hayden's generic duet tutorial, I identified the major and minor chords, and got my fingers trained to change among them. Then I played the notated melody on the right and the indicated chords on the left. Sounded quite nice, but a bit heavy! Then I learned to press the three buttons of the chord separately (oom-pah), and further discovered that two-note chords (omitting the 3rd or the 5th of the chord) sounded better in some circumstances.

 

I also noticed that where the song-book indicated a dominant seventh (e.g. a D7 in a tune in G major), just the dominant major chord (e.g. a D major in a G tune) was often enough. And that, where a dominant seventh sounded better, it was better to add the flattened 7th (e.g. the high C in a D7 chord) on the right hand, below the melody, rather than low down on the left hand.

 

I've been playing chording instruments (guitar, 5-string banjo and, above all, autoharp) for a long time, so I can often harmonise by ear (or by force of habit, if you like). But the best way to get into this habit is to play from a song-book with chord symbols. With a bit of practise, you'll learn to hear where the chord changes should be in familiar tunes, and soon be able to hear them in new tunes, too.

 

For a start, just learn the chords associated with the key of C major: C, F, G, G7, Am, Dm & Em (with the F note of the G7 chord on the RH side!)

 

When you feel comfortable with C major tunes, go for G major. You only have to add three new chords: D, D7 & Bm.

 

The next step would be F major. Again, only three new chords: C7, Bb and Gm.

 

Keep on going round the Circle of Fifths, i.e. taking a key with just one sharp or one flat more than the keys you already know. This way, you'll only need three new chords for each new key, and you'll always be able to handle those tunes that modulate up a fifth at some point.

 

Leafing through my old German song-book, I see no tunes with more than four sharps (E major) or more than two flats (Bb major) in the key signature, and most have one flat, one or two sharps, or no sharps/flats - i.e. they are in the keys of F, C, G or D major. (I believe these are the keys that are playable on an "Elise".) Your song-book may differ, but probably not much - arrangements with chord symbols are mostly made with guitarists in mind, and they prefer "sharp" keys!

 

Basically, my duet technique is like guitar and mandolin technique rolled into one. For the left hand, I learn the chord shapes I need for each key, and for the right hand I learn the corresponding scales. This gives you the "bare bones". A good exercise is to just play up and down the scale with the RH and harmonise each note with the LH. You can then play around with the rhythmic treatment of the chords, and with thinning them out.

 

On the Hayden, allegedly, you only have to learn the scale once and then move it around for other scales - but at some point, you run off the end sad.gif ! I suppose it's always like that - if you make one aspect easier, another aspect becomes more difficult! But, basically, duet is duet.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

 

 

Dear John, yes it helps a lot. Thanxs so much. I am learning the annexed song Arthur from Eric Theze. As you can see it has quite a number of chords to learn. Instead and also due to the fullness a 3 notes chord brings I as well prefer 1 note only. I am practicing which one to choose but my ear says that your indication makes sense. I am very happy I decided to go for the hayden and unisonoric Concertina, this really helps and makes the learning curve a joy to practice. If you consider that after 3 hrs of practice I can almosttely play the right hand.....Cheers

Sorry I forgot the file. here it is

post-8650-12786805841183_thumb.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Sorry I forgot the file. here it is

 

Hi, Ubik!

 

Well, looking at that file, I would say you've jumped in at the deep end!ohmy.gif

 

Not only does this arrangement include the tonic, subdominat and dominant chords (F, Bb and C) but also the relative minors of all of them (Dm, Gm and Am), and then 4-note chords based on them, like 7s and 11s!

 

Also, the notation is wierd. Apparently a minus sign is used for minor chords (the're called "minor chords," not "minus chords" laugh.gif ). Usually D minor would be noted as "Dm".

 

And then there's no key signature. The B is flatted wherever it occurs in the score, instead of having one flat up front for the whole piece. This is not user-friendly. Pianists, English and other duet players look at the key signature first, so as to know which sharps or flats to play throughout. As I understand the Hayden layout, you need to know what key you're in up front, so as to home in your fingering on the tonic.

 

But this is wierd - what instrument is it intended for?

 

In short, if you can make sense of something like that - why are you asking us for advice? wink.gif

 

Cheers,

John

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Hi, Ubik!

 

Well, looking at that file, I would say you've jumped in at the deep end!ohmy.gif

 

Not only does this arrangement include the tonic, subdominat and dominant chords (F, Bb and C) but also the relative minors of all of them (Dm, Gm and Am), and then 4-note chords based on them, like 7s and 11s!

 

Also, the notation is wierd. Apparently a minus sign is used for minor chords (the're called "minor chords," not "minus chords" laugh.gif ). Usually D minor would be noted as "Dm".

 

And then there's no key signature. The B is flatted wherever it occurs in the score, instead of having one flat up front for the whole piece. This is not user-friendly. Pianists, English and other duet players look at the key signature first, so as to know which sharps or flats to play throughout. As I understand the Hayden layout, you need to know what key you're in up front, so as to home in your fingering on the tonic.

 

But this is wierd - what instrument is it intended for?

 

In short, if you can make sense of something like that - why are you asking us for advice? wink.gif

It doesn't look so difficult to me. The way to play it without trouble is to play each chord on the left hand as either a single note or as an open fifth (for example, a D chord would be played as D and A played together). Open fifths are easy on a Hayden, they sound good on a concertina (unlike the often sour sounding thirds), and if you stick to them you can ignore the major, minor, 7, and 11 indicators. On this particular piece, the melody line often provides the third (creating a major or minor chord) or the seventh, so the fuller chords build themselves.

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