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Which Concertina for French mazurkas


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Many thanks you all for your welcome and words!

 

Here are some pictures of my concertinas. 31 buttons on the right hand and 24 buttons on the left. The right hand is a bit organized like a chromatic accordion and the left hand is...very bizarre. It is a bit organized like diatonic accordion. But instead of the "chord" above the "bass" (like diatonic or franglo system) the button above the bass is the octave higher. So no chords and all notes are "unisonores" (french word which mean that the pushed and pulled notes are the same...what is the english word for?...) I hope that what I am writing is not incomprehensible.

 

A bientôt,

 

Thomas

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Many thanks you all for your welcome and words!

 

Here are some pictures of my concertinas. 31 buttons on the right hand and 24 buttons on the left. The right hand is a bit organized like a chromatic accordion and the left hand is...very bizarre. It is a bit organized like diatonic accordion. But instead of the "chord" above the "bass" (like diatonic or franglo system) the button above the bass is the octave higher. So no chords and all notes are "unisonores" (french word which mean that the pushed and pulled notes are the same...what is the english word for?...) I hope that what I am writing is not incomprehensible.

 

A bientôt,

 

Thomas

 

Excellent playing.

When you say, left side is diatonic, what does it mean? Like Russian Diatonic system, when it's two rows in a single key, but uni-sonoric with one row of diatonic bass notes? Is the key restricted on the left?

Or left side buttons are arranged in a circle of 5ths? Would make sense, wouldn't it?

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In the case of my lefthand, diatonic was not the good word, sorry. I just used this word to make a comparison with diatonic accordion to explain the position of one button bass and its octave. When I have more time, I will post a scheme of the layout , (a better way to explain..)

So the lefthand is chromatic (24 buttons, 2 octaves range) and you guessed well about the circle of the 5ths!

I have to disconnect because of the storm here!...

 

More later.

 

Thomas

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Dear all, I am lusted (does this term exists in English?)by all your response.meanwhile I have been luck enough to get in contact with a French musician. he plays French mazurkas on a Duet Maccann with success. I do intend to learn concertina because we have tons of accordion player here, and many of them are outstanding. in the case I can learn decently my concertina I will have a chance to play with them like all the hunky donk players have being rare. I have difficulties in getting one in the price target that makes minimizing the risk of the purchase in case i cabt dig my hole with it. I know will make your skin trembling but I am more and more oriente to get a Elise duet to take the plunge. This is low risk investment for my wallet now. Please hear this link and tellme when it seems a strange sound for mazurka.I dont think.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC120A9Gayo

 

It's very beautiful. But it's not an 'old style' mazurka. It's some modern composition in 3/4 in a contemporary diatonic accordeon style. These young musicians took a way of playing mazurkas in one specific region of France where they play them even, flattened out, romantic and close to a waltz and proclaimed this style as the way to play it. This style doesn't correspond in any way with the way it is (was?) traditionally danced in most of Europe. I got a friend who teaches traditional dances and she confirms that it's almost impossible to dance a proper mazurka on these new melodies. Apart from that - I really like the tune and the way it's played. I wish they hadn't called it mazurka though...

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one recording more!...

 

Here is a mazurka "les ormeaux". It is not a traditional tune but composed by a friend, Tiennet Simonnin. I think this tune has the supports rythmic of the mazurka. I play this tune on my baryton duet which pitch of the lefthand is almost the same as the right hand.

 

Au plaisir.

 

Thomas

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Dear all, I am lusted (does this term exists in English?)by all your response.meanwhile I have been luck enough to get in contact with a French musician. he plays French mazurkas on a Duet Maccann with success. I do intend to learn concertina because we have tons of accordion player here, and many of them are outstanding. in the case I can learn decently my concertina I will have a chance to play with them like all the hunky donk players have being rare. I have difficulties in getting one in the price target that makes minimizing the risk of the purchase in case i cabt dig my hole with it. I know will make your skin trembling but I am more and more oriente to get a Elise duet to take the plunge. This is low risk investment for my wallet now. Please hear this link and tellme when it seems a strange sound for mazurka.I dont think.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC120A9Gayo

 

It's very beautiful. But it's not an 'old style' mazurka. It's some modern composition in 3/4 in a contemporary diatonic accordeon style. These young musicians took a way of playing mazurkas in one specific region of France where they play them even, flattened out, romantic and close to a waltz and proclaimed this style as the way to play it. This style doesn't correspond in any way with the way it is (was?) traditionally danced in most of Europe. I got a friend who teaches traditional dances and she confirms that it's almost impossible to dance a proper mazurka on these new melodies. Apart from that - I really like the tune and the way it's played. I wish they hadn't called it mazurka though...

I must admit that I have old recordings that are very close to the way I played the mazurkas ,with exaggerated stepping in the A part and possibly a much smoother B part which is the Waltz part of the Dance.I did however love the style that Thomas plays his Duet and very much more French sounding than my version of the same tune.

Thomas has agreed to do me some recordings that will be a lovely addition. Just listened to the new tune and once again lovely playing,to me much more Waltz sounding than Mazurka, but with a lovely Lady to dance with, I would not even consider the finer aspects of the music and struggle on with a smile on my face.

Al

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one recording more!...

 

Here is a mazurka "les ormeaux". It is not a traditional tune but composed by a friend, Tiennet Simonnin. I think this tune has the supports rythmic of the mazurka. I play this tune on my baryton duet which pitch of the lefthand is almost the same as the right hand.

 

Au plaisir.

 

Thomas

 

Excellent playing again. Seems like accordion school once again proved it's superiority. I like treble sound however, when bass line is clearly under the melody and chords don't sound unexpectedly high.

With all the quality of playing and composition it has little to do with Mazurka.

On the other hand:

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Dear all, I am lusted (does this term exists in English?)by all your response.meanwhile I have been luck enough to get in contact with a French musician. he plays French mazurkas on a Duet Maccann with success. I do intend to learn concertina because we have tons of accordion player here, and many of them are outstanding. in the case I can learn decently my concertina I will have a chance to play with them like all the hunky donk players have being rare. I have difficulties in getting one in the price target that makes minimizing the risk of the purchase in case i cabt dig my hole with it. I know will make your skin trembling but I am more and more oriente to get a Elise duet to take the plunge. This is low risk investment for my wallet now. Please hear this link and tellme when it seems a strange sound for mazurka.I dont think.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC120A9Gayo

 

It's very beautiful. But it's not an 'old style' mazurka. It's some modern composition in 3/4 in a contemporary diatonic accordeon style. These young musicians took a way of playing mazurkas in one specific region of France where they play them even, flattened out, romantic and close to a waltz and proclaimed this style as the way to play it. This style doesn't correspond in any way with the way it is (was?) traditionally danced in most of Europe. I got a friend who teaches traditional dances and she confirms that it's almost impossible to dance a proper mazurka on these new melodies. Apart from that - I really like the tune and the way it's played. I wish they hadn't called it mazurka though...

 

 

Friends, I am not an expert of concertina as you know, but I regularly dances them around Italy first and now Europe. Yes, they are the nouvelle vague of Mazurkas but these are the ones that fill the squares of young people learning folk dances. And yes, both can be danced as mazurkas. The proven is that if you start playing them at audience, without talking they start dancing them as mazurkas. you are all musicians and know better than me the timing/accent differences between a waltz and mazurka apart the common ground of 3/4. Isnt?

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I don't know what I'd do without the internet. Can't imagine how you old-timers managed back in the day.

Life was very different back then.

Communication was slow and chancy. There was no "concertina community". I particularly remember coming into contact with one player in Michigan and another in Texas, each of whom had thought up till then that they were the only concertina player in the entire US.

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Bonjour Thomas et bienvenue ici ! Ca fait plaisir de croiser un autre "hexagonal" sur ce forum.

For me also C.net has been a great place to practise my english, so don't hesitate to come back regularly !

 

I also enjoyed a lot the tunes and pictures you posted. Indeed another great creation from the Dippers.

The sound reminds me that of Emmanuel Pariselle's one.

I'd be also curious to see the exact layout of your left hand. Is that related to the "Darwin" Model designed by Marc Serafini which is also a 24bass system ? http://pagesperso-orange.fr/accordeons.serafini/darwin.html

 

 

David (Toulouse)

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So, to come back to the initial question in this thread, I think the answer is :

 

The best choice to play french mazurkas is a pair of custom duets from Dipper.

Perhaps the best choice of those we've heard here, so far.

But I believe it really does depend far more on who is doing the playing than on the particular instrument.

 

I'm surprised, though, that while the Dipper franglo has been mentioned in passing, it hasn't yet been proposed as an especially good choice for the task "at hand".

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one recording more!...

 

Here is a mazurka "les ormeaux". It is not a traditional tune but composed by a friend, Tiennet Simonnin. I think this tune has the supports rythmic of the mazurka. I play this tune on my baryton duet which pitch of the lefthand is almost the same as the right hand.

 

Au plaisir.

 

Thomas

 

Excellent playing again. Seems like accordion school once again proved it's superiority. I like treble sound however, when bass line is clearly under the melody and chords don't sound unexpectedly high.

With all the quality of playing and composition it has little to do with Mazurka.

On the other hand:

 

To say that Tona's recording has little to do with the mazurka is ridiculous. There are many styles of mazurka and both Tona's recordings have a beautiful french mazurka rhythm that is very danceable.

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The Music and Dance that M3838 is referring to is Polish and the dance demonstration is nothing like the French Mazurkas that are the subject of this discussion.

The French Mazurka dance is a combination of the basic Mazurka step and the Waltz step.

The French dance involves alternating mazurka steps with a small turn.(A Music)

The Mazurka steps is a rocking step onto one foot and then back onto the other followed by a small pause and then a lift of the foot and alternates with a waltz step, The music should follow the feel of the dance rhythm with the main beat every two bars at the start of the mazurka step.The B part of the tune the dancers dance a normal French waltz, which normally involves many spins and small steps with the feet hardly rising from the dance floor.

Thus the A music should exaggerate the stepping of the dance and the B music fairly smooth and played faster than an English waltz.

There was a U tube clip from St Chartier that demonstrated this dance and I will try and find it

Al

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Here's an example:

Maybe its now good to mix-up all the various ingredients...

Eric Theze with non conventional instrument and French dancing audience.This mazurka is really slow but still a mazurka.have alook if you have time....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_A8fdGyYzs

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