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This may turn into a bit of a a blog...anyway.

 

Yesterday I had my first violin/fiddle lesson.

And I'm finding that the fiddle kinda fits into the concertina side of my mind rather than melodeon.

I think its the whole crossing rows is like crossing strings, maybe?

 

I suspect some of you play both instruments have you found similarities or advantages to having played one helping the other?

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I suspect some of you play both instruments have you found similarities or advantages to having played one helping the other?

 

Knowing the fiddle well made it easier for me to learn the concertina, no doubt. I think that goes for most pairings of instruments (and for languages...).

 

A fiddler I know learned a few tunes on the concertina, and he told me he couldn't get his head around push/pull until he related it to up/downstroke with the bow.

 

S

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A fiddler I know learned a few tunes on the concertina, and he told me he couldn't get his head around push/pull until he related it to up/downstroke with the bow.

 

 

I have to admit when I first picked the fiddle up (before my first lesson)...I kept wondering why I couldn't get a different note on 'push n pull'. lol!

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I play both, but other than finding that they sound quite nice together on multi-tracked recordings, I can't think of any particularly transferable skills.

 

The most obvious difference is that it's impossible to play a bum note on the concertina and very difficult not to on the fiddle, at least for the first year or so.

 

It's good that you're having lessons, though, as it's much easier to get into bad habits of technique with the fiddle than with the concertina. There are so many possible things that can give you problems (too much rosin, not enough rosin, incorrect set-up, etc.), but a teacher will usually spot and correct them pretty quickly.

 

What fiddle have you bought, btw? I got a Gliga (Romanian) one a couple of years ago and it was incredibly good value well as having a nicer (darker) tone than most of the (largely Chinese) competition in the "not much money" price bracket.

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The concertina is great because it makes its own sound: press a button and the tone is consistent and clear, unlike the fiddle. The fingering is the tricky part on the concertina. On the fiddle the fingering is straight-forward and easy. The music, the really expressive part, comes out of the bow.

The fiddle is infinitely interesting. It is the most ambidextrous of instruments (it can be played fairly easily in any key), the volume can be controlled, and it is the most expressive of all the trad instruments. As well as the most challenging. The fiddle leads you into a tune in ways that are very different than any other instrument. Everybody should spend some time playing the fiddle.

Good for you, Lady DT, for being fearless and adventurous.

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What fiddle have you bought, btw? I got a Gliga (Romanian) one a couple of years ago and it was incredibly good value well as having a nicer (darker) tone than most of the (largely Chinese) competition in the "not much money" price bracket.

 

Antoni 'duet'...but I didn't buy it. I got it given to me by someone who no longer wanted it coz he found it too hard to learn...

 

The fiddle leads you into a tune in ways that are very different than any other instrument. Everybody should spend some time playing the fiddle.

Good for you, Lady DT, for being fearless and adventurous.

Thanks.

Managed a squeeky strangled A part of speed the plough last night....I'm pleased to just get a sound out of it. ;)

Edited by LDT
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The concertina is great because it makes its own sound: press a button and the tone is consistent and clear...

 

 

A concertina in itself is neither great nor nothing else. It's extremely hard to play instrument because there is very little one can do with the sound, unlike the fiddle. So I'd say the opposite is true, it's the fiddle that can be great for it's endless possibilities. It can even play chords! I was not aware of this till a few years ago. It can tune to true pitch! Wow! But ergonomics suck. A doctor told me once he is seen great number of amateur violin and guitar players, who picked instruments as adults. Hardly any piano player, lots of transverse flute players. So I guess the best exercise would be to play Fiddle on both sides, no?huh.gif

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Violin is perhaps the most expressive of all instruments--which makes it also one of the most "difficult" to play (requiring very refined technique). It has been called a "seismograph of the heart," which is not a bad analogy--as it is highly sensitive and registers and transmits the slightest tremor.

 

Of all instruments with crossover application, the fiddle and concertina are about as far apart as any two instruments.

 

As m3838 mentions, fiddle is also one of the more ergonomically challenging of instruments. But, it can still be played in a semi-recumbant position--such as lying on a couch...which makes it appealing in yet another way B) . This ergonomic aspect, though, is one of the reasons why I love EC--an incredible little chromatic instrument which can easily be played in virtually any environment, and with such economical range of motion.

 

For capacity for expression and versatility, I so enjoy violin and english concertina (or anglo, in a pinch ;) ). When I travel for leisure (that is, when I'm not traveling with a band with my drums or a doublebass), I travel with a fiddle/mando double case, and a bag containing a concertina and melodeon. It is because the fiddle and concertina are so profoundly different that they complement each other so well. Never did two instruments satisfy my need for tactile and sonic variety--allowing me tremendous diversity in sound, style, and touch in two elegantly small packages. In this way they are most highly compatible and complement each other in a unique way. But crossover application...not so much, I'd say.

Edited by catty
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Surprisingly, I find the closest instrument to the Anglo Concertina to be the hammer dulcimer. I know, that makes absolutely no sense, but there is something about the geometric patterns and the alternate motions that to my brain, seem to light up the same neurons.

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I'm another who finds fiddle and anglo extremely satisfying in their different ways and that they complement each other well. (Fiddle is very much my main instrument, "improver" I hope on anglo.)

 

As regards harmony playing during a year or so of melodeon playing a couple of years back I found the "instant commitment" to one chord involved in pressing a chord button was hard to get my head around. Harmony finger patterns relating to what I'm doing to play the tune came much more naturally on the anglo, and I'd see that as fiddle related if not actually a cross-over.

 

The infinity of variables is the wonder and the horror of the fiddle. In contrast, at the moment I'm finding the limitations of an (augmented) 20-button anglo very pleasing .

 

 

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After singing unaccompanied I find fiddle and flute and whistle led me to understanding of ornamenattion and expression and dynamics. On anglo concertina I try to achieve some of that feeling.

 

I would advise reaching a fair level of competence on one instrument , then explore the others.

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I would advise reaching a fair level of competence on one instrument , then explore the others.

 

That's a very good point. It was ten years of exclusive fiddle before I felt it was ok to try something else as well.

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I would advise reaching a fair level of competence on one instrument , then explore the others.

 

That's a very good point. It was ten years of exclusive fiddle before I felt it was ok to try something else as well.

 

Well its been nearly 2 years on concertina, and about 18 month on melodeon so far.....

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There's something to be said for to keep trying them all until you find one that suits.. although when one gets stuck in a bit of a rut, a plateau - one shouldn't give up too readily, I think. Perseverance and patience seem to be good virtues in music making.

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And I'm finding that the fiddle kinda fits into the concertina side of my mind rather than melodeon.

I think its the whole crossing rows is like crossing strings, maybe?

 

I suspect some of you play both instruments have you found similarities or advantages to having played one helping the other?

 

LDT,

The reason why I decided on the Crane when looking for a Duet system was that the arrangement of the notes fitted well with my fiddle/mandolin-conditioned brain. The basic idea, as you suggest, is that the scale progresses along one row/string until you run out of fingers, then skips to the start of the next row. And the strings/rows are all the same interval apart (fifth on fiddle/mando, fourth on the Crane). In both cases, you get the accidentals by shifting a finger one position over.

My expectations were fulfilled, and I got the RH scales down pretty quickly on the Crane. A bonus that I didn't expect was that the chording on the LH of the Crane reminded me of the 5-string banjo. In both cases, you have a small number of "chord shapes" that yield different chords when you move them up and down the keyboard/fretboard.

 

My other instrument with the greatest "kinship" to the Anglo (harmonic style) is the autoharp, believe it or not! Both require (and train) that feeling for whether the next note is part of the tonic, dominant or subdominant chord. On the Anglo, this determines your bellows direction; on the autoharp it determines which chord button to press.

 

What all instruments have in common is, of course, the music. I find that each instrument gives you a different perspective on the music, making you a more complete musician. (Self-accompanied singers have this advantage right from the start! tongue.gif )

 

And speaking of expressive playing: you'll probably learn some aspects of fiddle bowing that you can transfer to the bellows control of the Anglo, making you a more expressive concertinist. smile.gif

 

Have fun with the fiddle, too! You're a bit like the person who played the fiddle, the concertina, the guitar and the piano, and was asked if he could play the uileann pipes, too. He said, "I don't know - I've never tried!"

 

Cheers,

John

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What all instruments have in common is, of course, the music. I find that each instrument gives you a different perspective on the music, making you a more complete musician.

 

I think the above is the main point, with which I totally agree. Each instrument gives the music its own character and slant. I don't find any relationship between the instruments I play -- aside from the music -- fiddle, concertina, and timber flute. I don't think you need to be a master of one (e.g., having played it for 10,000 hours) before you start another one. It will all even out in the end. There's always that great joy of discovery, on picking up an instrument that you haven't played for a day or so, to find it so differently expressive from what you have been playing.

 

Some tunes just fit better on a particular instrument and sound better when you play them. I love The Galway Rambler on the flute, but it's tricky enough on the fiddle. I'd never play a tune in Bb on the concertina but on the fiddle it's easy.

 

 

I do sometimes wish I only played one instrument. I haven't the energy or the hours in the day to keep all three going at full strength. Every instrument should be played daily but with the flute especially, you need to play it every day just to keep the embouchure muscles tight and focused.

 

 

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I do sometimes wish I only played one instrument. I haven't the energy or the hours in the day to keep all three going at full strength. Every instrument should be played daily but with the flute especially, you need to play it every day just to keep the embouchure muscles tight and focused.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.

I used to play several brass instruments and played them in a musical acrobatic comedy act I did for years. Eventually I dedicated myself to practice and play the EC and eventually stopped playing the other instruments because not only was I no longer progressed in proficiency but my interest and playing regressed.

Never regretted my decision either.

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Dedicating one's self to only one instrument is a calling that I have always admired--and have always been someewhat envious of folks who were able to do it. Unfortunately for myself, I lacked the discipline to become an artist; my curiosity has always had the better of me as I've gone from one instrument to another for some 40 years. This used to cause me considerable consternation...until one day I made peace with myself and decided that I would simply follow the music:

 

With classical guitar, for years I sat day after day alone in a room practicing largely the same studies and repertoire, with no one else hearing me. While this was satisfying in some ways, it was very unsatisfying in ways that I found were important. At some point, I became a "folk" musician -- learning banjo, fiddle, mandolin, free-reeds, even hammered dulcimer -- and began playing music everywhere I went and in proximity of anyone. I find this approach eminently more satisfying than the path of the artist--as it allows me to perform, (that is, share music-making) with much more frequency. While I still yearn for the artist's path, I understand that it wasn't for me; my compulsion for exploration outweighed my ambition for artistic development. But it took me many years to figure that out.

 

There are many advantages to a varied approach: for me, the angst created by the constant pursuit of perfection was immediately relieved by the spontaneous joy of playing music with a simpler approach. It seemed that whenever I made a decision to focus on only one instrument, a call came for a gig on another: one time, with great deliberation I decided to file off my classical fingernails "for good"... after fastidiously keeping them for some 25 years--a great challenge for anyone engaged in varied activities. The next day, I got a gig playing guitar. This was about the point I decided I would take it as it came. Consequently, I get a lot of calls to play drums and bass. And I've found that I enjoy playing for dances--I've traded art music for dance music, and I get much more work this way.

 

Music is the ultimate existential creative endeavor; it is among the most potent and ethereal expressions, and once it is created, it is gone. It is a most excellent medium for being in the moment, and for facilitating the experience of joy.

Edited by catty
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