38-button Anglo On Ebay

[Mark Stayton]

There's a 38-button anglo currently up for bid on eBay of unknown make.

 

See it here.

 

Looks like late Jeffries style fretwork (post-1910?) and bellows tooling. There's a stamping on the side in one of the photos, which I enlarged but still can't make out what it says.

 

Perhaps one of our resident experts can discern the maker from this clue.

Edited May 25, 2004 by Mark Stayton

[Chris Timson]

I'm not an expert, but I agree that the end plates look very much like a 38 button Jeffries I used to own. Given that it has no makers name, perhaps it's a Crabb.

 

Chris

[wes williams]

I can't read the stamp either, but gut reaction says it may read:

Ball Beavon & Co

London

 

You can compare it with the stamp on one that Bob Tedrow restored a few years back here. So like Chris, I'd hazard a guess at re-badged Crabb.

[Clive Thorne]

The fretwork, indeed the whole arrangement of the ends, including the style of the fold down on the edges, looks similar (but not identical) to my early 'Crabb built' 36 key Jeffries. Superficially at least this might also support the unbadged Crabb theory.

 

Although six inches is larger than mine (concertina that is), am I right in thinking that this is still smallet than most anglos?

 

It looks a bit scruffy, and I notice that one of the keys appears to be down, so I guess a fair bit of repair work might be required. Fundamentally a nice looking box (to my eye) though

 

If only the seller knew what key it was in!

 

 

 

Clive.

Edited May 25, 2004 by Clive Thorne

[Stephen Chambers]

I have had similar instruments by Henry Crabb, Harry's father, and that is who I think made this one. Though the stamp may well read Ball Beavon, as their concertinas were made by Crabb's.

Edited May 27, 2004 by Stephen Chambers

[Clive Thorne]

Out of interest I watched this item through the last 15 minutes or so. Having been at £670 for about 8 days it rose rapidly through £750, 1250, 1850 etc, finsihed with a snipe by Chris Algar at £2500 with seven seconds to go (some sniping software employed here I suspect)!.

 

For a while there I was in a "should I/shouldn't I" phase that had me in a real quandry, so I was actually relieved when it went well out of my range.

 

Ah well, back to the sale rooms and the car boot sales eh?

 

Clive.

[Erik Murray]

I also watched the end of this auction with the thought that it might be possible to buy the thing for half of what it went for or slightly more. Oh well, everyone's got to make a living.

If I become a billionaire anytime soon maybe I'll buy all the good concertinas on Ebay and give them to a low bidder. I'll let you know.

As long as Ebay is going to just be entertainment for most of us, as far as good concertinas go, I wish the dealers would list their high end instruments. It would be nice to know what's out there and what it costs without feeling like you are wasting someone's time by not being ready to buy. We won't consider it undignified if prices are listed online. Hooray Button Box, if only you had more used anglos.

Now, let's see who buys the Jeffries!

Can discussion list chat influence the market?

E

[Chris Timson]

Chris knows his business, but it strikes me he must know something about this concertina that's not on the eBay page. It's a lot to pay for a box with so many unknowns otherwise.

 

(Looking back at what I just wrote, I'm not suggesting anything unethical, it just seems a lot to gamble on relatively little information).

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

...it just seems a lot to gamble on relatively little information.

One can always ask a question of an eBay seller, and sometimes the answers can be very informative. I have done this at times, and I know that Chris A. does, too. Maybe this was one of those times?

[Clive Thorne]

I'm not suggesting anything unethical

Nor was I!!, and I hope it didn't come over that way. Chris Algar has a living to make and so must use the system to the full.

 

After all, it may cost us a bit more going to a dealer, but at least it gives a place to go with a reasonable chnace of getting what we're looking for.

 

 

If any critisism was implied it was of the E-bay system which means that the person with the best sniping software, and broadband, can win rather than the person prepared to pay the most. This is to the disadvantage of the seller and hence, I would have thought, to E-bay themselves. I know the idea is that you put in one bid which is the most you're prepared to pay, but we all know that it doesn't work like that.

 

Perhaps E-bay should consider a system whereby the auction does'nt have a fixed end time, but ends at a time after the 'end time', once there have been no new bids for 5 minutes or so. This would then emulate more of the sale room auction affect, making sure that everyone has had the chance to put in their final bids.

 

Just a thought which has nothing to do with concertinas particularly.

 

Clive

[Chris Timson]

If any critisism was implied it was of the E-bay system which means that the person with the best sniping software, and broadband, can win rather than the person prepared to pay the most.

Clive

 

The only way to combat sniping is to think carefully and decide the maximum bid you are willing to go to and put it in and let eBay bid for you. This will even beat the seven-second snipe since eBay will bid automatically in the shortest possible timespan. If the snipe goes over what you put in then you have the satisfaction of not having paid more than the item is worth to you. Oh, and don't use round numbers. Sinpers don't - they rely on normal people to do so. So if your upper limit is 1000 whatevers then set your limit as 1008 thingies - it's what the sniper would do. This strategy does work. I fended off a seven-second snipe this way when buying a particularly nice melodeon recently.

 

Perhaps E-bay should consider a system whereby the auction does'nt have a fixed end time, but ends at a time after the 'end time', once there have been no new bids for 5 minutes or so

Clive

 

That sounds quite elegant to me. Have you tried suggesting it to eBay?

 

Chris

[Dave Weinstein]

The only way to combat sniping is to think carefully and decide the maximum bid you are willing to go to and put it in and let eBay bid for you.

Exactly. Also, the way the eBay system works, earlier bids trump later bids of the same value.

 

So if you bid 1008 Currency Units, and the sniper comes in at 1008, you still win, because your bid was there first.

 

The proxy bid only fails if you don't bid the maximum you are willing to pay.

 

--Dave

[Clive Thorne]

Chris/Dave

 

Of course you're right about putting in you max bid and leaving it at that.

Its a nice idea, but I guess that the whole physcology of an auction is that if I think some thing is worth £100, and someone else bids £110 I immediately think 'perhaps it is worth a bit more' and bid £115, and so on.

 

I suppose the problem is that people (including myself) like to up their bid a bit a time so they feel in control, but also that they think that they might get a bargain by sniping. I must be honest here, and own up to having indulged in last minute bids myself!, because that is the system that seems to have emerged. I would be quite happy to see the system changed however.

 

 

I havn't suggested the other idea to E-bay, but might well do, I'm sure I'm not the first person to have thought of it.

 

Clive.

[JimLucas]

Perhaps E-bay should consider a system whereby the auction does'nt have a fixed end time, but ends at a time after the 'end time', once there have been no new bids for 5 minutes or so. This would then emulate more of the sale room auction affect, making sure that everyone has had the chance to put in their final bids.

I don't really think that's viable. Competition for lines, modem speed, and other uncontrollable factors would conspire to make it more of a crap shoot than an auction. E.g., even on a wide-band terminal I've had an experience where the auction screen popped up saying 30 seconds to go, within 3 seconds I had entered my bid, and yet I got the message that I was too late and the auction had already ended. Sniper services seem less vulnerable to such vagaries of the internet.

 

Sniping is actually a quite reasonable way to work it. One can change the advance time at which to place the snipe, so if you put a £1554 snipe on for 30-seconds advance and somebody else puts on £1554 for 7-seconds, yours was first and you win, yet yours is still too late for any but the luckiest manual overbid. It's like what Chris suggested, except that you can enter your bid (the maximum you're willing to pay) on the snipe site a week in advance, yet not have it appear in other bidders' view until the last minute. If you place your limit bid directly through eBay, then others can gradually up their bids to push your visible bid higher, until they discover your limit by edging you out. The sniping way sort of forces folks to be honest with themselves about the maximum they're willing to bid, rather than compulsively bidding a little more and a little more.

 

I've done eBay auctions both directly and via sniping, and I much prefer sniping. I can enter my limit bid at my leisure, and then forget about it. Others won't see it until the last minute, and I don't have to hover over my computer as the auction nears an end to see if I "should" edge a little higher, nor wonder whether I can if I try. By the time I could, it would be too late, anyway. So I don't have to be tempted. But I probably still have just as good a chance of getting it, maybe even better.

[Chris Timson]

If you place your limit bid directly through eBay, then others can gradually up their bids to push your visible bid higher, until they discover your limit by edging you out.

Not a problem to me. If they've edged me out it means it's reached a price I'm not willing to pay. I'm happy to live with the consequence of it being just over the price I'm willing to pay, because I have thought hard first. But perhaps I'm more deliberate about these things. Oh, and there is a certain satisfaction in watching eBay outsnipe the sniper for you...

 

Chris

[Clive Thorne]

Perhaps E-bay should consider a system whereby the auction does'nt have a fixed end time, but ends at a time after the 'end time', once there have been no new bids for 5 minutes or so. This would then emulate more of the sale room auction affect, making sure that everyone has had the chance to put in their final bids.

I don't really think that's viable. Competition for lines, modem speed, and other uncontrollable factors would conspire to make it more of a crap shoot than an auction. E.g., even on a wide-band terminal I've had an experience where the auction screen popped up saying 30 seconds to go, within 3 seconds I had entered my bid, and yet I got the message that I was too late and the auction had already ended.

 

But the answer to that would surely be simply to increase the time with no bids to 10 minutes, or 15 minutes, or whatever. Any connection can submit a bid within 10 minutes, and having done so the end time would automatically be extended by another 10 minutes. Only when no one has bid for 10 minutes would the auction end. You could even have 'going going gone' flags displayed.

 

Obviously this would be an advantage to the seller rather than the buyer, since it would mean that the item went to the person prepared to pay most rather than the person with the best sniping software. From the buyers point of view it would obviously reduce the chances of getting a bargain.

 

As has been said, if you're firm enough to put in your top price and then forget about it thats probably the best way. Except that (and I've only just thought about this) if you leave it to the last minute you have the chance to see what else comes onto the market in the mean time.

 

 

Clive.

[JimLucas]

If they've edged me out it means it's reached a price I'm not willing to pay.

Maybe you've missed my point? Or maybe I've missed yours?

 

What I'm suggesting is that there are people who base their bidding not on their own advance valuation of the item for sale, but on the bidding of others. So if they can determine your bid, they will bid just over that, assuming that the item is worth at least your valuation, and maybe a little more. You are satisfied, since it went above what you were willing to pay. BUT... if they can't determine your limit -- the sniping scenario -- they don't outbid you, you get it, and for a price you were willing to pay. Wouldn't you find that even more satisfactory?

 

Oh, and there is a certain satisfaction in watching eBay outsnipe the sniper for you...

Not sure what you mean by that. eBay doesn't run its own sniping service, does it?

[JimLucas]

Any connection can submit a bid within 10 minutes, and having done so the end time would automatically be extended by another 10 minutes. Only when no one has bid for 10 minutes would the auction end.

An interesting concept, though one that would put someone with an unreliable internet connection at a distinct disadvantage, a disadvantage that sniping can currently eliminate.

 

Can I think of a neat way to abuse it?: Two people take turns upping the bid by the minimum amount. As long as they don't stop, the auction doesn't end, and nobody has to pay. (Nor does the seller get his sale.) Nope. Won't really work. 500 (dollars, pounds, whatever) would be raised to more than a million in less than a day. Even Bill Gates and the Sultan of Brunei couldn't extend it indefinitely. It was a fun thought, though.