32-key concertina arrived today

[Tom Ryan]

The 32-key concertina arrived today. I hadn't realized it would be so small! I have attached some photos, showing each end, the label, the serial number, and the bellows. The range is from middle C up two octaves plus one note, thus ending on a D. As you can see, there is lots of cracking in the veneer.

 

I can't tell anything about the tuning because there is one note which is sounding continuously, making it impossible to use a tuner. I tried very gently to open an end, but the old screws have very narrow slots, so only a jeweller's screwdriver will fit and it is not giving much torque. I certainly don't want to force anything. So at the moment I can't see if the interior will give me any clue as to the maker. Perhaps some of our concertina historians can deduce something from the pictures. Judging by the serial number, it doesn't appear to be a Wheatstone, since the Horniman ledgers show 1201 as a 48-key instrument.

 

I would appreciate any advice about opening up the ends because I don't want to do any damage.

 

Tom Ryan

 

[chris]

Hi

It looks like an early Nickolds

chris

[MichaelF]

The 32-key concertina arrived today. I hadn't realized it would be so small! I have attached some photos, showing each end, the label, the serial number, and the bellows. The range is from middle C up two octaves plus one note, thus ending on a D. As you can see, there is lots of cracking in the veneer.

 

 

Isn't that a B below middle C on the right hand side making it two octaves plus two notes? Have you looked at the web page http://www.concertina.com/chambers/lachenal-production/index.htm. From the pictures on that page it doesn't look like a Lachenal, but a 32 button one is listed in their catalogue.

[Tom Ryan]

I stand corrected - a B below middle C it is. Thanks.

 

Tom

 

The 32-key concertina arrived today. I hadn't realized it would be so small! I have attached some photos, showing each end, the label, the serial number, and the bellows. The range is from middle C up two octaves plus one note, thus ending on a D. As you can see, there is lots of cracking in the veneer.

 

 

Isn't that a B below middle C on the right hand side making it two octaves plus two notes? Have you looked at the web page http://www.concertina.com/chambers/lachenal-production/index.htm. From the pictures on that page it doesn't look like a Lachenal, but a 32 button one is listed in their catalogue.

[nkgibbs]

Dear Tom,

After seeking the advice of the good folks of C.net, I sold a 48b Nickolds English concertina recently that has similar fretwork motifs (eg the 'flower' at the base) to your concertina.

If it is a Nickolds, one would expect 'hooked' pivot posts and open reed clamps.......................

Regards,

Neil

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2010 by nkgibbs

[Tom Ryan]

Thanks, Neil

 

Another Cnet member has suggested Nickolds in a pm. In another pm, a member has strongly suggested Rock Chidley. I hope to know more when I open the concertina.

 

Tom

 

Dear Tom,

After seeking the advice of the good folks of C.net, I sold a 48b Nickolds English concertina recently that has similar fretwork motifs (eg the 'flower' at the base) to your concertina.

If it is a Nickolds, one would expect 'hooked' pivot posts and open reed clamps.......................

Regards,

Neil

 

 

 

[David Helmore]

Hi All

 

THis is the one that seems quite similar to Tom's that finished on ebay a couple of weeks back. Pics attached - would be interested to hear your views on who you think made it. Serial number 990 and has a 'W' mark on one end....

 

Thanks!

 

Dave Helmore

 

 

[chris]

Hi

this may cause more confusion than it cures:

 

I've seen the fretwork pattern on a Nickolds but it had Nickolds 'hook' action

 

I've seen the action in an SC Taylor (but with different fretwork); a Nickolds Bros.(fretwork as SCTaylor); Jabez Austin (fretwork as SCTaylor).

my best guess is still Nickolds- but...........

 

It does illustrate the difficulty in attributing a maker to a concertina without having a label. Mind you, even when you have a label it doesn't always say who made the concertina- only who stuck a label in it.

 

chris

 

edited to remove Scates (tho' there was a Scates with similar fretwork to the SCTaylor with an 85 Renshaw St L'pool address)

Edited May 13, 2010 by chris

[wes williams]

Historically Robert Hack was at 174 Fleet St by 1843 and still there in 1856. By 1865 he seems to have died, because the listing then is Hack, Robert (Mrs); Musical Instrument Dealer, 36 Great College St.

[David Helmore]

Hi again

 

Thanks for all the info! Here's some more pics for anyone that's interested....

 

 

Here's a few more observations:

 

1. The ends of the reeds are square. Having read through Neil Wayne's article on Wheatstone, he mentions that Wheatstone stopped using square ended reeds in the late 1840's. Would this have been the same for other makers as well (or is this another unknown)?

2. The stamps on the right hand side under the action board and in the bellows frame (R & serial number) are all 'back to front' - not sure why this would be...

3. The 'C' keys on mine are coloured, on Tom's they look white - although the fretwork is the same, the woods are obviously also different (although I expect there will be more differences once we can see inside!)

4. The boxes on both instruments seem similar (and are slightly smaller than the more conventional size as the instrument is 15cm across the flat sides)

5. Any ideas what the 'W' could represent? - are there any letters like this on your one Tom?

 

 

Chris - I've never heard of SC Taylor.. Is there any info anywhere online that anyone can direct me to?

 

Appreciate there are probably no definitive answers, but thanks for any input anyway!

 

Dave

[chris]

1. The ends of the reeds are square. Having read through Neil Wayne's article on Wheatstone, he mentions that Wheatstone stopped using square ended reeds in the late 1840's. Would this have been the same for other makers as well (or is this another unknown)?

2. The stamps on the right hand side under the action board and in the bellows frame (R & serial number) are all 'back to front' - not sure why this would be...

3. The 'C' keys on mine are coloured, on Tom's they look white - although the fretwork is the same, the woods are obviously also different (although I expect there will be more differences once we can see inside!)

4. The boxes on both instruments seem similar (and are slightly smaller than the more conventional size as the instrument is 15cm across the flat sides)

5. Any ideas what the 'W' could represent? - are there any letters like this on your one Tom?

 

 

Chris - I've never heard of SC Taylor.. Is there any info anywhere online that anyone can direct me to?

 

Appreciate there are probably no definitive answers, but thanks for any input anyway!

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave

it's the other end that would be defined as 'square' yours, therefore, would be classed as 'round'.

SCTaylor - the only one that I have seen is in a thread by Jim Lucas - if you search this site you should find it. I think the Taylor is owned by Jim. He did post a photo site with a lot of pics- not sure whether it is still accessable tho'.

I've seen a Nickolds Bros. with the same fretwork (different wood), same action and with the reversed 'R', also with the same style of reed cross pieces (usually attributed to Nickolds)

If it is Nickolds then it's probable post 1848

The 'W' could be an owners mark - know when I was working I used to stamp tools with my initials- maybe someone did it for identification??

Looks like a lot of renovation work ahead Best of luck

chris

 

[Theo]

The reed tongues look remarkably free of rust, in contrast to the clamp screws. Its quite likely that the reed tongues are nickel silver, plus two from the photo look like brass.

[DDF]

Not sure if it helps but my Nickolds has that type of mahogany action board and the reed clamps are square and open ended like yours.However it does not have a riveted post but has a hook like a staple with one side open.David.

[David Helmore]

Thanks everyone for all the info as always!

 

Tom - look forward to seeing some more pics of yours when you manage to get inside

 

All the best

 

Dave

[Tom Ryan]

I'm pretty busy with other things at the moment. I'm teaching one last course before retiring, so it may be a while before I get to the box. BTW, the C buttons on mine are (or were) red. It's just that wear has taken the red off the tops. Interesting set of posts here.

 

Tom

 

 

Thanks everyone for all the info as always!

 

Tom - look forward to seeing some more pics of yours when you manage to get inside

 

All the best

 

Dave