Tom Ryan Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 The concertina in the photos is for sale at an antique store about 300 miles from me (not a huge distance by Canadian standards). I have not seen it, but a friend told me about it and I had the store send me these pictures. The label says "R. Hack, 174 Fleet Street, London, England" I assume this is the dealer and not a manufacturer. I am thinking about buying this concertina, but I would like to know what make it is if at all possible, so I would appreciate any help folks on the forum could give me.n Hope the pictures show ok. I've not done this before. Cheers, Tom Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael sam wild Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 It's a little beginner's type English Concertina ( notes play same whether button is pushed or pulled. ) Could be nice to learn on if the reeds work.. Not worth too much unless it's a collector's piece. There will be lots of helpful comments from others. Nice wooden box . Looks late 1800s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 (edited) Looks late 1800s The very simple fretwork pattern and small number of buttons (for an English) suggests that it is much older more likely to be from the 1840s. It is possible it could be an early Wheatstone, or it could be made by one of the numerous smaller makers such as those documented by Wes Williams Edited April 28, 2010 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael sam wild Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 I bow to the Master Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Hey, I'm just basing my answer on information available on the web! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelF Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 (edited) The other point of note is that it has a fewer buttons compared with a "standard" treble English concertina which has a total of 48 - even for a basic tutor model. I count 16 (including sharps/flats) instead of the usual 24, on the right side going from B to D just over 2 octaves. This appears to be a 32 button model. Check out this page http://www.concertina.com/chambers/lachenal-production/images/production-fig05.htm. Is the fact that it is unusual the reason you wish to buy it? As Theo says it could be an early model. Edited April 29, 2010 by MichaelF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 I count 16 [buttons] (including sharps/flats) instead of the usual 24, on the right side going from D to D over 2 octaves. Actually, the low note is B, so slightly more than 2 octaves. There isn't a picture of the left hand side, but I would expect the concertina covers C to C in 2 octaves, presumably in the treble range. 16 buttons also on the left would make sense, though I would rather know for sure than assume. (Tom mentioned "photos", but I only see one.) If this is a treble, then that low B would correspond to the lowest note on some flutes (most have C as the lowest). Coincidence, or specifically intended for flute parts? But the concertina doesn't look smaller than "normal". Could it be an early baritone, with a reduced range to allow fitting in the lower/larger reeds without making a larger instrument? Any chance that the seller could tell you whether that low B is just below middle C or an octave lower? And is there a serial number visible on the left end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Ryan Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 My thanks to all who have replied to my question. I have bought the instrument and I am awaiting delivery. At that time I'll take more photos and post them. Jim, I did mention photos, but I had 'room' for only one. I'll get my son to show me how to post more (I suppose I'll need to re-size them). However, none of the pictures the seller sent showed the left side. Maybe I am in for a rude surprise! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) There is an almost identical one on ebay at present, also in the North America. I suspect they are both very early Wheatstones, made before 48 keys became the de-facto standard for treble EC. Edited April 30, 2010 by Theo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Just out of interest I googled the address, and it seems that 174 Fleet Street was not a good place to be resident as a trader in the 19th century. I came up with two entries from the London Gazette. The earliest dated was for 1863, and recorded the bankruptcy case of Percival Watts, "No. 174, Fleet-street, in the city of London, Musical Instrument Maker, having been adjudged bankrupt under a .Petition for adjudication of Bankruptcy, filed in 'Her Majesty's Court of Bankruptcy, in London, on the 19th day of May,. 1863, is hereby required 'to surrender himself to William Hazlitt,' Esq., a Registrar of the said Court, at the first, meeting of creditors, to-be held before the said Registrar, on the 1st day of June next, at twelve of the clock at noon precisely, at the said -Court. Mr. Hattou Hamer-Stansfeld, of-No. lA, Basinghallrstreet, . Lo'ndpn, is the, Official Assignee,- and Mr.: "Thomas Wiells, 'of No: 47, Moorgate-street, London, is the Solicitor acting in the bankruptcy. Five years later , at the same address we have a Robert Davey, printer, at the same address, also made bankrupt. What I find interesting is that the first of these two is a musical instrument maker ... which leads me to wonder if R Hack was a predecessor in the same line of business ? Edited April 30, 2010 by Irene S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Ryan Posted May 1, 2010 Author Share Posted May 1, 2010 Of course, he wouldn't be the first hack in Fleet Street, would he? Couldn't resist that one. Tom Ryan Just out of interest I googled the address, and it seems that 174 Fleet Street was not a good place to be resident as a trader in the 19th century. I came up with two entries from the London Gazette. The earliest dated was for 1863, and recorded the bankruptcy case of Percival Watts, "No. 174, Fleet-street, in the city of London, Musical Instrument Maker, having been adjudged bankrupt under a .Petition for adjudication of Bankruptcy, filed in 'Her Majesty's Court of Bankruptcy, in London, on the 19th day of May,. 1863, is hereby required 'to surrender himself to William Hazlitt,' Esq., a Registrar of the said Court, at the first, meeting of creditors, to-be held before the said Registrar, on the 1st day of June next, at twelve of the clock at noon precisely, at the said -Court. Mr. Hattou Hamer-Stansfeld, of-No. lA, Basinghallrstreet, . Lo'ndpn, is the, Official Assignee,- and Mr.: "Thomas Wiells, 'of No: 47, Moorgate-street, London, is the Solicitor acting in the bankruptcy. Five years later , at the same address we have a Robert Davey, printer, at the same address, also made bankrupt. What I find interesting is that the first of these two is a musical instrument maker ... which leads me to wonder if R Hack was a predecessor in the same line of business ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kautilya Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) Just out of interest I googled the address, and it seems that 174 Fleet Street was not a good place to be resident as a trader in the 19th century. I came up with two entries from the London Gazette. The earliest dated was for 1863, and recorded the bankruptcy case of Percival Watts, "No. 174, Fleet-street, I bet he was putting out scam adverts in the penny dreadfuls offering the same instrument for sale in Aviemore and Land's End but the Peelers caught up with him. That law official sounds a bit dodgy too - r sure he was not running some scam racket from Lagos, with a name like Hattou Hamer-Stansfeld. As for that excellent discursive about the hacks, interesting to know that by 1965 the precursor of multi-address, computerised email (well before the later Berners-Lee Web incarnation) was operating at No 85, Fleet St Hack Central through a machine know as The ADX (address switching computer). The musical connection is that one of the operators inputting words and addresses (without a screen!) earned a reputation as a virtuoso fingering soloist. Bespectacled, he attacked the "deep-drop" keys on the keyboard, hair and arms flailing and, yes, "phrasing" with his head and shoulders as though he was playing the Rach 2. If he thought he had made a mistake he had to go back and check it by reading the dots (holes) on a punched computer tape.... Edited May 10, 2010 by Kautilya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 If he thought he had made a mistake he had to go back and check it by reading the dots (holes) on a punched computer tape.... Ah! The good old days, when "computer literacy" really meant just that! Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Helmore Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Hi If you have been following this post then check out the other one Tom has started under concertina history. I'm listing details of the concertina that Theo made reference to above that was on ebay that has very similar fretwork to Tom's one here Dave Helmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkgibbs Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 (edited) Dear Tom, I think that I may have already replied to this in the History Forum but this looks similar to a Nickolds that passed through my hands a few months ago. It will be interesting to see whether it has 'hooked' pivot posts and open reed plate holes. Best Regards, Neil Edited May 17, 2010 by nkgibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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