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Vegetarian concertina


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The American Indian hunted buffalo and honored it with song, dance, and praise. Every part of the animal was used to sustain a great nation of people: the hides, bones, meat, sinew, etc.

Actually, Randy, until the Spaniards introduced the horse to them, American Indians got their buffalo "parts" by driving a herd off a cliff, then stripping whatever they needed from the pile of carcasses below - an extremely wasteful method. Examination of remains below old 'buffalo jumps' indicates that many of the victims may not have been utilized at all.

 

As for felt, sheep tend to shed their wool naturally. Unharvested, wool becomes a waste product, like lost hair, molted feathers and dandruff.

 

I do prefer the revised historical perspective I learned in school. So much more comforting. As for molted sheep dandruff, I doubt would make for an appetizing concertina.

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The American Indian hunted buffalo and honored it with song, dance, and praise. Every part of the animal was used to sustain a great nation of people: the hides, bones, meat, sinew, etc.

Actually, Randy, until the Spaniards introduced the horse to them, American Indians got their buffalo "parts" by driving a herd off a cliff, then stripping whatever they needed from the pile of carcasses below - an extremely wasteful method. Examination of remains below old 'buffalo jumps' indicates that many of the victims may not have been utilized at all.

 

As for felt, sheep tend to shed their wool naturally. Unharvested, wool becomes a waste product, like lost hair, molted feathers and dandruff.

 

I do prefer the revised historical perspective I learned in school. So much more comforting. As for molted sheep dandruff, I doubt would make for an appetizing concertina.

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yes, as do most people. Native Americans (and even that term is wrong btw as North and South "America" were named after the explorer "Americus Vespucius", local tribes have their own names for themselves) had impacts but since their populations were small and the resources so vast, they could do pretty much anything.

 

In California tribes would burn forests/woodlands to flush out game. There are locations along the coast where abalone once was, but is now extirpated from these areas by native Americans. Indians of California had money, ware fare, theft, drug use, gambling, slaves, and transvestism.

 

The concept of the wise and "living-in-harmony-with-nature" Native American is a myth: the modern interpretation is a romantic view. Much like modern day Wiccans have romanticized the folk medicine and beliefs of pre-christian pagans.

 

As for plants having feelings... what on Earth will you have for dinner tonight??? Dirt?? Mold??

 

You can look out on a peaceful meadow and sigh saying to yourself "aren't plants so peaceful", but in reality plants are competing with each other for water, minerals, sunlight and space. Some even produce toxins to poison the soil so no other plants can grow there, and lets not forget the Carnivorous plants.

 

Tonight I'll have salmon and corn (I'll try to muffle the screams of the kernels as I chomp away).

 

As for the "vegetarian" concertina, good luck, I believe it could be done, but all your replacement parts have their impacts as well.

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I love discussions/arguments about philosophy and religion (I personally don't believe they can be distinguished), ethics, and the like. But aside from the occasional throwaway comment, I try to avoid and even discourage such discussions here, because they can quickly overwhelm the concertina focus, even when they remain friendly, which I'm pleased to see this one has so far. So... there are lots of things I'd like to say, but I won't. :)

 

Have fun, folks.

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I'd like to see the source of the info about pile of Bison, of which Indians only used a few. I think it's a BS, because the Jackals will eat the rest and leave nothing for the Anglo-Saxon explorers.

inter alia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-Smashed-In_Buffalo_Jump

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonfire_Shelter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_Island_Buffalo_Jump_Provincial_Park

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vore_Buffalo_Jump

Here's one with photos: http://www.buffalojump.org/

 

Those huge piles of bison bones raise a question back to concertinas: bone has always been cheaper and more plentiful than ivory. Could some of those "ivory" concertina buttons really be made of bone?

Edited by yankeeclipper
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I'd like to see the source of the info about pile of Bison, of which Indians only used a few. I think it's a BS, because the Jackals will eat the rest and leave nothing for the Anglo-Saxon explorers.

inter alia:

http://en.wikipedia....In_Buffalo_Jump

http://en.wikipedia....Bonfire_Shelter

http://en.wikipedia....Provincial_Park

http://en.wikipedia....re_Buffalo_Jump

Here's one with photos: http://www.buffalojump.org/

 

Those huge piles of bison bones raise a question back to concertinas: bone has always been cheaper and more plentiful than ivory. Could some of those "ivory" concertina buttons really be made of bone?

 

Very interesting.

It leaves 3 questions unanswered.

1. What is the evidence that Indians didn't use all they could, but were wastefully leaving carcasses behind?

2. Such jump holes are only evidence that "some" indians hunted Bison like that, not all, and only where the natural features and nearby herds allowed.

3. Jump holes are not evidence that Indians "didn't " respect the animals they killed.

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Concertinas, folks, that's what we do here. Other topics are probably best hashed out elsewhere. Thank you.

 

SFAIK, all those buttons (at least on Lachenals) are bone rather than ivory. Somewhere I read how to tell the difference but memory fails me.

 

Ken

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Again, I have no axe to grind on either side of this argument - this started off as a well meaning academic question and seems to be drifting into something else. blink.gif I'm off to play that rosewood Jeffries...

 

 

Gav,

Speaking of rosewood Jeffries ... reminds me of a song I wrote long ago (must be 15 or 20 years). I wonder what you and all the vegan and steak-eating musicians here think of it. Here it is. If you don't read German, scroll down to the literal (non-singable) translation:

 

Der Herr und der Sänger

 

 

 

Eines Tages ging der Schöpfer in der Welt hienieden,

 

Um zu schauen nach dem Rechten, wie schon hin und wieder.

 

Sah sich an, was Menschen trieben

 

mit der Schöpfung alles;

 

Ärgerte und freute sich, je nach Art des Falles.

 

 

 

Sah die Männer in dem Walde stolze Bäume fällen,

 

Hörte auch ihr Jagdgetöse und die Hunde bellen.

 

Bergleut' wühlten unter Tage,

 

Abraumhalden wuchsen;

 

Wo die Leute Erze schmolzen, war der Himmel duster.

 

 

 

Einer aber stand beiseite, ab vom muntern Treiben,

 

Seine Miene war recht finster, und er war am Schreiben.

 

Sprach der Herr zu ihm: "Wer bist du?"

 

"Herr, ich bin der Sänger,

 

Und die Schändung Deiner Welt dulde ich nicht länger!

 

 

 

"Leute, die die Bäume fällen und die Tiere töten,

 

Sollen aus den Liedern lernen, Schonung ist vonnöten,

 

Und dass Schätze dieser Erde

 

Allzuschnell verschwinden,

 

Pufft man sie so achtungslos in die freien Winde!"

 

 

 

Sprach der Schöpfer zu dem Sänger: "Kläglich ist dein Singen!

 

Hättest du bloß Instrumente, tät' es wohler klingen!"

 

Sprach der Sänger: "Instrumente

 

Tät' ich wohl begehren,

 

Würdest Deinem Sänger Du welche doch bescheren."

 

 

 

"Töte," sprach der Herr, "Ein Kalb; mach' aus dem Fell die Pauke!

 

Und aus Hölzer edler Bäume bau' dir eine Laute!

 

Lass' dafür die Saiten ziehen

 

Aus geschmolzenen Erzen;

 

Spiel zum Tanz, und sing dein Lied dann für frohe Herzen!"

 

 

 

© John Dallas

 

 

The Lord and the Singer (literal translation)

 

 

 

One day, the Creator came down to this world

 

to see how things were going, as he occasionally does.

 

He looked at what humans were doing

 

with all his creation;

 

was annoyed or pleased, depending on what he saw.

 

 

 

He saw the men in the forest felling proud trees;

 

heard the cry of their hunt, and the baying of the hounds.

 

Miners grubbed in the earth,

 

slag-heaps grew;

 

where the people smelted ores, the sky was darkened.

 

 

 

But one stood aside, far from the merry activity;

 

his mien was dark, and he was writing.

 

The Lord spake to him: "Who art thou?"

 

"Lord, I m the Singer,

 

and I will tolerate the desecration of thy world no longer!

 

 

 

"People who fell the trees and kill the animals,

 

shall learn from my songs that conservation is necessary,

 

and that the treasures of the earth

 

will vanish all to quickly

 

if they are puffed so carelessly into the free winds!"

 

 

 

The Creator spake to the Singer: "Your singing is dismal!

 

If only you had instruments, it would sound fuller!"

 

The Singer spake: "Instruments

 

are what I would wish for

 

if thou wouldst bestow some on thy Singer."

 

 

 

"Kill," spake the Lord, "A calf; make a drum with its skin!

 

And from the woods of noble trees, build yourself a lute!

 

Have the strings for it drawn

 

from smelted ores;

 

play for the dance, and then sing your songs for light hearts!"

 

 

 

© John Dallas

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

John

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Very interesting.

It leaves 3 questions unanswered.

1. What is the evidence that Indians didn't use all they could, but were wastefully leaving carcasses behind?

2. Such jump holes are only evidence that "some" Indians hunted Bison like that, not all, and only where the natural features and nearby herds allowed.

3. Jump holes are not evidence that Indians "didn't" respect the animals they killed.

 

He's got a point: you need to specify which tribes when talking about Native Americans, what the Cherokee did is not the same as the Hopi. Its almost as bad as saying "Europeans did ______". For California its difficult to discuss "Indians" in general terms due to having over 100 tribes, all you can say is "some tribes did _____" or state the specific tribe.

 

I'm going to guess the Native Americans that hunted that way had no choice but to kill lots at once with that method.

 

and I agree, the thread has deteriorated. Speaking of which - I think I prefer the idea of a concertina made of organic once living materials, rather than a synthetic one with parts that take thousands of years to disintegrate.

Edited by Hooves
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and I agree, the thread has deteriorated. Speaking of which - I think I prefer the idea of a concertina made of organic once living materials, rather than a synthetic one with parts that take thousands of years to disintegrate.

Still need to be careful of the possibility of extreme interpretations.

 

Some plastics are made from cellulose or other plant-derived -- and thus once living -- materials. Others derive from coal and petroleum, which are the remains -- albeit millions of years distant -- of formerly living things. :ph34r:

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Der Herr und der Sänger

 

 

Super! If I have time, I'd translate to singable version and present to the public.

 

Micha,

 

I wrote a tune to it, too. I can e-mail you a pdf with standard notation melody and chord symbols if you like.

 

Have a go! For some reason, though I write songs in English or German, whichever Muse happens to kiss me, I never translate my own.

 

Cheers,

John

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Der Herr und der Sänger

 

 

Super! If I have time, I'd translate to singable version and present to the public.

 

Micha,

 

I wrote a tune to it, too. I can e-mail you a pdf with standard notation melody and chord symbols if you like.

 

Have a go! For some reason, though I write songs in English or German, whichever Muse happens to kiss me, I never translate my own.

 

Cheers,

John

 

Post the tune. Why only me?

I kind of started like this:

 

T'was a Day, when Lord descented from his elevation

to observe how do the People live in his Creation

Such was custom in the Heavens, rule of Holy Pages

And he came to teach the Fools and to learn from Sages

 

But it's just a brain muscle flexing.

You write long poems, tell you.blink.gif

 

In the meanwhile, I'd like to present another of my translations (have I done if before? If yes, nothing is wrong with repeat, right?)

 

 

Memory

 

I'm overgrown with Memory

Like Wasteland with the Forest

Where Mem'ry - Birds are singing in the morning

And Mem'ry - wind is blowing in the night

And Mem'ry - trees are bubbling through the day

 

And there, in feathered memory of mine

All Fairy-Tales begin with "Once Upon"

and in it lies the Singleness of Being

And Singleness of quenching of my thirst

 

But in my memory

Lives such a hidden power

That it brings back all images and feelings

My noisy Mem'ry - Rain is falling, falling

My silent Mem'ry - Snow is flying, flying, flying...

 

 

Edited by m3838
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and I agree, the thread has deteriorated. Speaking of which - I think I prefer the idea of a concertina made of organic once living materials, rather than a synthetic one with parts that take thousands of years to disintegrate.

Still need to be careful of the possibility of extreme interpretations.

 

Some plastics are made from cellulose or other plant-derived -- and thus once living -- materials. Others derive from coal and petroleum, which are the remains -- albeit millions of years distant -- of formerly living things. :ph34r:

 

 

ahh Jim you got me again, too true.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

a bit late I admit, but, wait what's this?

 

or·gan·ic

   [awr-gan-ik] Show IPA

adjective

1.

noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerly comprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, but that now includes all other compounds of carbon.

2.

characteristic of, pertaining to, or derived from living organisms: organic remains found in rocks.

3.

of or pertaining to an organ or the organs of an animal, plant, or fungus.

4.

of, pertaining to, or affecting living tissue: organic pathology.

5.

Psychology . caused by neurochemical, neuroendocrinologic, structural, or other physical impairment or change: organic disorder. Compare functional ( def. 5 ) .

 

its been a while since I've been to these forums, thought I might update some old posts.

Edited by Hooves
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  • 2 weeks later...

All concertinas are vegetarian - to my knowledge no concertina has taken animal products as food.

:lol:

 

I think that what the OP intended to mean was "is there such a thing as a vegetable+mineral concertina?" After all, human vegetarians are (almost) entirely animal in construction.

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