What Key?

[Bob Norris]

Hi,

Ive been playing the concertina about a year. Its a G/D 30 button anglo. I can play it pretty well. I dont have any recent recordings but here is one of "Drunken Sailor" from the first week I started. Its in the key of D with A Smallpipes. There is a Irish sessions group a few towns away and I want to give them a go however I sent theses clips to a D whistle player and he said it is not in d. I play the rows. Any suggestions?

 

 

 

Drunken Sailor:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/1drunkenpiper.mp3

 

D Scale:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/concertinascale.mp3

[Boney]

Well, it resolves on an A, so maybe it's A mixolydian, which uses the same notes as a D major scale.

 

X:1

T:Drunken Sailor

M:4/4

K:AMix

e2 e2 eA Bc | d2 d2 dG AB | e2 e2 ef ga | ge dB A2 A2 ||

[Bob Norris]

Well, it resolves on an A, so maybe it's A mixolydian, which uses the same notes as a D major scale.

 

X:1

T:Drunken Sailor

M:4/4

K:AMix

e2 e2 eA Bc | d2 d2 dG AB | e2 e2 ef ga | ge dB A2 A2 ||

 

Still confused, but that's normal for me;)v

[michael sam wild]

Sounds like the song / 'shanty' I know but with some notes flattened. That sounds like A minor to me

Edited April 11, 2010 by michael sam wild

[Marien]

Key of A and it switches to G all the time.

 

Hi,

Ive been playing the concertina about a year. Its a G/D 30 button anglo. I can play it pretty well. I dont have any recent recordings but here is one of "Drunken Sailor" from the first week I started. Its in the key of D with A Smallpipes. There is a Irish sessions group a few towns away and I want to give them a go however I sent theses clips to a D whistle player and he said it is not in d. I play the rows. Any suggestions?

 

 

 

Drunken Sailor:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/1drunkenpiper.mp3

 

D Scale:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/concertinascale.mp3

[Bob Norris]

Key of A and it switches to G all the time.

 

Hi,

Ive been playing the concertina about a year. Its a G/D 30 button anglo. I can play it pretty well. I dont have any recent recordings but here is one of "Drunken Sailor" from the first week I started. Its in the key of D with A Smallpipes. There is a Irish sessions group a few towns away and I want to give them a go however I sent theses clips to a D whistle player and he said it is not in d. I play the rows. Any suggestions?

 

 

 

Drunken Sailor:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/1drunkenpiper.mp3

 

D Scale:

http://www.triadhighlanders.com/music/concertinascale.mp3

 

So why is it called a g/d? Could it be a g/a?

[maccannic]

An anglo in G/D has two rows - one plays G major, the other plays D major.

 

Your tune is not major but is in the Dorian mode in A, which is the same notes as G major, so will play on the G row no problem.

 

Edited to add: By the way, Dorian, definitely not Mixolydian.

Edited April 11, 2010 by maccannic

[Bob Norris]

An anglo in G/D has two rows - one plays G major, the other plays D major.

 

Your tune is not major but is in the Dorian mode in A, which is the same notes as G major, so will play on the G row no problem.

 

Edited to add: By the way, Dorian, definitely not Mixolydian.

 

Interesting, I have 3 rows,, I call the one closest the "D" row and the middle the "G" row. The third(farthest away) I cannot play at all along the rows as I do. Is this correct or?

[maccannic]

Sorry, should have been more careful.

 

You have 2 diatonic rows which the system is named after, i.e. G/D. The third row is for the accidentals, which is all the extra notes not part of the major scales. You can't normally play just on the third row.

[Dave Weinstein]

Interesting, I have 3 rows,, I call the one closest the "D" row and the middle the "G" row. The third(farthest away) I cannot play at all along the rows as I do. Is this correct or?

 

That is correct.

 

If you start on the G in your G row, and go up the scale, you would play G A B C D E F#. This is the G Major Scale.

 

If you start on the A in your G row, and go up the scale, you would play A B C D E F# G. This is the A Dorian Scale. It shares the same notes as the G Major Scale, but starts on a different note.

 

As a general rule, tunes will end on their "tonic", the root note of the scale. So if you know the tune ends on an A, and you are playing it on the G row, it would be in A Dorian. If you know the tune ends on an A, and you are playing it in the D Row, it would be in A Mixolydian, which shares the same notes as the D Major Scale, but starts on A.

 

Sometimes you can play the tune on either row starting in A, because it does not contain a C or C# note (which is the difference between the D and G scales, D has C#, G has C natural). That tune is hexatonic (it has six notes), and the mode is not determined.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Dave Weinstein

[David Barnert]

Edited to add: By the way, Dorian, definitely not Mixolydian.

Not so fast: The tune as it is usually played would be in the dorian mode (A minor with an F#), but in this sound clip, the 6th note of the tune is a C# (the tune is shaped a little differently than usual) and an A scale with F# and C# but G natural is mixolydian.

 

Here's the common (dorian) version:

 

X:1

T:What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor

M:C

K:Ador

e2e2 eAce|d2d2 dGBd|e2e2 efga|gedB A2A2|]

 

And here's what I hear on the sound clip (mixolydian):

 

X:2

T:What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor

M:C

K:Amix

e2e2 eABc|d2d2 dGAB|e2e2 efga|gedB A2A2|]

 

 

 

Edited to add: Bob is clearly playing on the D row, using the notes of the D major scale, which are the same as the notes of the A mixolydian scale, in a different order. The 2nd clip, which he calls the D scale, uses the same notes, but starts on a low G.

Edited April 13, 2010 by David Barnert

[Bob Norris]

Edited to add: By the way, Dorian, definitely not Mixolydian.

Not so fast: The tune as it is usually played would be in the dorian mode (A minor with an F#), but in this sound clip, the 6th note of the tune is a C# (the tune is shaped a little differently than usual) and an A scale with F# and C# but G natural is mixolydian.

 

Here's the common (dorian) version:

 

X:1

T:What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor

M:C

K:Ador

e2e2 eAce|d2d2 dGBd|e2e2 efga|gedB A2A2|]

 

And here's what I hear on the sound clip (mixolydian):

 

X:2

T:What Shall We Do With a Drunken Sailor

M:C

K:Amix

e2e2 eABc|d2d2 dGAB|e2e2 efga|gedB A2A2|]

 

 

 

Edited to add: Bob is clearly playing on the D row, using the notes of the D major scale, which are the same as the notes of the A mixolydian scale, in a different order. The 2nd clip, which he calls the D scale, uses the same notes, but starts on a low G.

 

For reference, I play with Scottish Smallpipes that have 9 notes, Low G, Low A, B, C, D, E, F, High G,High A

 

 

So according to this last post it is in the key of D correct?

[Dave Weinstein]

For reference, I play with Scottish Smallpipes that have 9 notes, Low G, Low A, B, C, D, E, F, High G,High A

 

So according to this last post it is in the key of D correct?

 

No, it is in the key of A Mixolydian, which uses the same notes as D Major.

 

This makes sense, given the Smallpipes, which if tuned like Great Highland Pipes, are closest to A Mixolydian.

[David Barnert]

For reference, I play with Scottish Smallpipes that have 9 notes, Low G, Low A, B, C, D, E, F, High G,High A

 

So according to this last post it is in the key of D correct?

No, it is in the key of A Mixolydian, which uses the same notes as D Major.

 

This makes sense, given the Smallpipes, which if tuned like Great Highland Pipes, are closest to A Mixolydian.

I don't know anything about how pipes are tuned, but I know a lot of music theory. Judging from DW's response, it looks like the scale Bob outlined is missing a couple of sharps. If that's the case (the scale is Low G, Low A, B, C#, D, E, F#, High G,High A) then it plays an A mixolydian scale and can play along with tunes in D as long as they are in the range of the instrument. But it also plays a G lydian scale (lydian is like a major scale with a sharp 4th degree, in this case the C#). Whether you call it an A instrument or a G instrument or a D instrument is arbitrary, although pipers may have some strong feelings about it.