jeffries

[RHM83]

Has anyone seen the concertinas that Bonhams London are offering on 10th March? Three jeffries and a wheatstone? www.bonhams.com/music

[PeterT]

Has anyone seen the concertinas that Bonhams London are offering on 10th March? Three jeffries and a wheatstone? www.bonhams.com/music

 

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&screen=Catalogue&iSaleNo=17825

 

Looks like the Wheatstone is seriously under-valued. I'd also be surprised if the Jeffries anglos did not exceed the top end of estimate. The duet is harder to value.

 

It would be interesting to know the tunings, but I see that one Jeffries anglo has eight-fold bellows.

[Ivan Viehoff]

http://www.bonhams.c...e&iSaleNo=17825

I was very amused by Lot 5. I never imagined such a thing, though Wikipedia tells me they are in common use in Romania.

 

Those price estimates suggest that Bonhams are a bit out of touch.

[michael sam wild]

Iwas interested in the Duet and phoned up the woman who was very nice but didn't know too much .

I reckon the predicted prices reflect the top of the tree expectation. i.e. no bargains. they don't give much info on condition etc no sound files.

 

 

I might make a phone bid for the Jeffries Duet

[SteveS]

Has anyone seen the concertinas that Bonhams London are offering on 10th March? Three jeffries and a wheatstone? www.bonhams.com/music

 

Bonhams have had quite a few Jeffries and other top-end boxes in the last year or so - where are they all coming from I wonder (I'd like to find the source )

[conzertino]

http://www.bonhams.c...e&iSaleNo=17825

I was very amused by Lot 5. I never imagined such a thing, though Wikipedia tells me they are in common use in Romania.

 

Those price estimates suggest that Bonhams are a bit out of touch.

 

I used to own two of those ( phono-fiddles ) plus a viola. They also made cellos and guitars that way. Originally they were invented so that violinists could record on early cylinder-grammophones ( imagine a quartet aiming their horns at the recording horn... ). They were quite popular in Britain and America. I have seen pictures of phono-fiddles beeing played with brass-bands. And loud they are...

Edited February 26, 2010 by conzertino

[TomB-R]

I assume estimates are a fine art for auctioneers. On the one hand you need to get people interested and excited, on the other hand you look bad if you're too wrong.... (Do they give the seller the published estimate, or something else as well...)

 

The auction reports in The Strad magazine (fiddle family obviously) sometimes give interesting insights into how the auction world works. Seems like different auction houses are known for differing estimate policies.

 

With "Buyers premium" and all that mullarkey I think the difference between what you bid, what you pay, and what the seller gets, can be a bit silly! Certainly needs care.

 

[Edit: Phono fiddles are great - if you base your performance standards on a 78 gramphone sound!]

Edited February 26, 2010 by TomB-R

[Alex West]

If comparing prices, please bear in mind that buyers' premium and VAT will add a fair bit. Also, depending on the condition, you may need to add a bit for repairs, refurbishment, new bellows, tuning and so on. If you haven't inspected the instrument, then there's a fair bit of risk here andan auctioneer won't necessarily have listed all of the issues with any particular instrument - they are selling as seen.

 

The Wheatstone does look a little low, but the year and the model number indicate that this is one of the cheaper models so it may not have brass reed shoes, screwed reeds, riveted levers and all of the things that the "best" Wheatsones have. Also, it may not be in C/G which could affect the value

 

Alex West

[michael sam wild]

If comparing prices, please bear in mind that buyers' premium and VAT will add a fair bit. Also, depending on the condition, you may need to add a bit for repairs, refurbishment, new bellows, tuning and so on. If you haven't inspected the instrument, then there's a fair bit of risk here andan auctioneer won't necessarily have listed all of the issues with any particular instrument - they are selling as seen.

 

The Wheatstone does look a little low, but the year and the model number indicate that this is one of the cheaper models so it may not have brass reed shoes, screwed reeds, riveted levers and all of the things that the "best" Wheatsones have. Also, it may not be in C/G which could affect the value

 

Alex West

 

20% premium and VAT at 17.5%

[Chris Drinkwater]

 

...... but I see that one Jeffries anglo has eight-fold bellows.

 

This anglo (lot 3) also has three screw holes just above the right-hand strap fixing button. I wonder what might have been screwed in there? A miniature music stand?

 

Chris

[Dirge]

I hate buyers premiums. The concept is dishonest. I want to know what they are doing for their fee?

 

The seller gets the facilities of the auction room to promote the sale of his item. What does the buyer get? A guarantee of what he's buying? Protection against any failure in the item he buys? A down payment on a secure life assurance scheme? "Yeah, right." as they say over here. If they are going to charge the buyer they should be performing a service for him. I don't count 'taking as much of his money as possible for an item' as a service in itself before someone suggests it; the seller pays for that.

 

If the auctioneer wants to charge a 40% premium, or whatever, that is what it should be called. They shouldn't pretend to take it off the buyer. Buyers don't pay MORE for an item they want in these circumstances (except for the rare occasions where the idiots are out in force, ie in at least pairs). In truth it means less money for the seller. That is where it really comes from.

 

I am keenly awaiting the day a disgruntled purchaser goes to the Trading Standards to sort out a complaint and they say that because the auctioneers took a fee they have a 'duty of care' and must pay up. Seems reasonable to me.

[PeterT]

 

...... but I see that one Jeffries anglo has eight-fold bellows.

 

This anglo (lot 3) also has three screw holes just above the right-hand strap fixing button. I wonder what might have been screwed in there? A miniature music stand?

 

Chris

 

No, it's the "usual" Jeffries problem. The strap's screw thread is tapped directly into the wood; in time, if the instrument's strap is regularly adjusted, the thread gets stripped.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

...... but I see that one Jeffries anglo has eight-fold bellows.

 

This anglo (lot 3) also has three screw holes just above the right-hand strap fixing button. I wonder what might have been screwed in there? A miniature music stand?

 

Chris

 

No, it's the "usual" Jeffries problem. The strap's screw thread is tapped directly into the wood; in time, if the instrument's strap is regularly adjusted, the thread gets stripped.

 

 

And can suggest that it has had many owners or maybe was a band instrument. (No allocated user).

 

Geoff

[Chris Drinkwater]

 

...... but I see that one Jeffries anglo has eight-fold bellows.

 

This anglo (lot 3) also has three screw holes just above the right-hand strap fixing button. I wonder what might have been screwed in there? A miniature music stand?

 

Chris

 

No, it's the "usual" Jeffries problem. The strap's screw thread is tapped directly into the wood; in time, if the instrument's strap is regularly adjusted, the thread gets stripped.

 

Thank goodness for that explanation, Peter. I thought you might say it was woodworm. Time to start a new thread?

 

Chris

[Alex West]

And so to the results.

 

The 50 key Duet - £1900

 

The 30 key bone buttoned C Jeffries - £3500

 

The rough looking 39 buttoned Jeffries - £3000

 

The 36 key Wheatstone - £2100

 

All the above are hammer prices to which should be addedthe buyer's premium, the VAT which makes some of them on target and others look a bit costly?

 

Alex

[michael sam wild]

I saw the Duet at Chris Algar's the other day. It looks set to become a multi button Anglo which is what people are after. He sold a similar to John Spiers... Still, there it was at auction for anyone who wanted a Jeffries Duet and we were forewarned of its existence.

 

I was in Tunstall to get a nice Crabb 40 + drone Anglo.

[Ptarmigan]

I was in Tunstall to get a nice Crabb 40 + drone Anglo.

 

So, does that mean you have the full set now Michael? ....... or

[michael sam wild]

Hi Dick, I reckon I'll still have CAD and am keen on a G/D and an F/C , oh and maybe a Bb/F.

 

Maybe when I sell the house and quickly squander the kids' inheritance so's I can live off the state and the backs of the distressed youngsters. As Generations X and Y are accusing us of doing! us War Babies and Boomers want it all don't we.