ICA Competitions

[Dirge]

I know these were still running in the 90's and that some of our members competed in them. But what happened? Why did they stop? Clearly there was a decision to move away from this sort of thing because the trophies have just been disposed of, which seems very final. But why?

 

And in case I've unwittingly touched on a contentious subject; I'm not out to stir things, I don't know the story and am genuinely puzzled because it seems like this is the sort of thing a body out to promote the concertina should be doing.

[Alan Day]

I know these were still running in the 90's and that some of our members competed in them. But what happened? Why did they stop? Clearly there was a decision to move away from this sort of thing because the trophies have just been disposed of, which seems very final. But why?

 

And in case I've unwittingly touched on a contentious subject; I'm not out to stir things, I don't know the story and am genuinely puzzled because it seems like this is the sort of thing a body out to promote the concertina should be doing.

 

I think you will find that the cups and trophies were not disposed of (or binned).They are still held in a collection

I suppose this decision was taken at an AGM. I think it is a bit sad, but I have only myself to blame for not voting on the subject.

I have been listening to a number of these competitions from Peter Trimmings and Malcolm Clapp Archive collection.

I find them very interesting and they created yearly records of the players who took part. Be it in private collections.

We have to move on however, the competitions were very much a local yearly event,(those in easy reach of London), we are now Worldwide, that lends itself to a possible different style of competition and really makes the old trophies redundant anyway.

Al

[Dirge]

I know these were still running in the 90's and that some of our members competed in them. But what happened? Why did they stop? Clearly there was a decision to move away from this sort of thing because the trophies have just been disposed of, which seems very final. But why?

 

And in case I've unwittingly touched on a contentious subject; I'm not out to stir things, I don't know the story and am genuinely puzzled because it seems like this is the sort of thing a body out to promote the concertina should be doing.

 

I think you will find that the cups and trophies were not disposed of (or binned).They are still held in a collection

I suppose this decision was taken at an AGM. I think it is a bit sad, but I have only myself to blame for not voting on the subject.

I have been listening to a number of these competitions from Peter Trimmings and Malcolm Clapp Archive collection.

I find them very interesting and they created yearly records of the players who took part. Be it in private collections.

We have to move on however, the competitions were very much a local yearly event,(those in easy reach of London), we are now Worldwide, that lends itself to a possible different style of competition and really makes the old trophies redundant anyway.

Al

Reading the piece though it did seem as though Neil Wayne now owns them outright; to get someone to keep them on longterm loan in case the ICA wants to start the competitions again is one thing, but it's such a final step. Or were they so Mickey Mouse that they were no real loss anyway?

 

But let's assume this was a carefully considered step. My chief question was why the competitions were ended in the first place. Was there a dearth of entrants? Did the same names win year after year?

 

If there was still a duet competition I would think about timing my visit to England to include that; preparing music for it would be a good target to work to (as preparing offerings for a certain range of CDs has undoubtedly been for many of us too), and I'm not exactly local to London...

[John Wild]

In the early years of the ICA's existence, it was predominately a London based organisation. By the 1970's and the 1980's, the geographical distribution of the membership had spread much wider. By 1991, I considered (as Treasurer at the time) that the competitive festivals were only appealing to a small portion of the membership, and argued that an alternative application of funds should be considered. The number of entrants was small in relation to the membership. This view (as I recall) was shared by a majority of the then committee. In 1993, a non-competitive festival was held, and no competitive festival was reinstated afterwards. No doubt others will correct me if my recollection is faulty.

 

regards

 

John Wild

Edited February 7, 2010 by John Wild

[Alan Day]

A Worldwide ICA competition based on MP3s has been suggested to the ICA committee and may may be considered for the future.

If accepted, it would enable you Dirge to send in MP3s from New Zealand for entry into certain classifications.I had hoped it would follow the same pattern as the old cups and trophies.We know it works as the Internationals follow the same pattern. A CD of the winners could also be made but I may have got too excited about it.

Al

[hjcjones]

I took part in only one ICA competition. I live some distance from London, and it was only possible for me because I could stay with my sister. I entered purely out of curiosity, to see what it would be like and (as a relatively isolated and self-taught player) to try to find something to compare myself against.

 

It was 1983, and I was 29, playing folk music in what was then still a lively and youthful scene. I found the ICA setup to be old-fashioned, relatively elderly, and dominated by EC players and classical music. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I felt I didn't fit in. Apart from my age, I was an anglo player, playing folk music by ear, and I sensed that all of these were slightly looked down upon.

 

There was nevertheless a class for playing by ear, which I'm pleased to say I won (playing Michael Turner's Waltz, as I recall). I came away with a little plastic trophy the size of an egg-cup - if there was a "proper" trophy which the ICA retained then I have no recollection of it. There was also a class for anglo, but it assumed playing from music, and I rather confused the adjudicator by giving her a score showing just the melody, printed with a dot-matrix printer using primitive notation software as a single line on about 6' of fanfold paper. In spite of this I received a good mark, but didn't win.

 

I enjoyed the day, and was gratified to have won something, but it felt a bit like visiting a native village during an exotic holiday - a curiosity but not something I felt any connection with. Even if I had lived in London I don't think the ICA would have had anything to offer me, and I let my membership lapse.

 

I can't shed any light on why the competitions came to an end. Presumably there wasn't enough support for them to justify the cost of running them. My impression, then and later, was that the ICA was out of touch with the younger generation of concertina players, who were mostly from the folk world.

Edited February 7, 2010 by hjcjones

[michael sam wild]

At the AGM this year we were told that the trophies, which are quite fine pieces, were ' languishing in an attic, and could be lost as so many things are. Whole concertina collections from bands were broken up and disposed of by the last custodians or there indifferent relations, and that happens with many clubs tat go into decline for reasons such as those Howard mentioned.

 

Neil made a financial donation and said they will be safeguarede and find a place in the Museum he is setting up.

 

 

I joined the ICA last year as it does seem to be doing its best to both preserve and project the playing of the instrument. I asked about competitions on another topic

[Chris Timson]

It was 1983, and I was 29, playing folk music in what was then still a lively and youthful scene. I found the ICA setup to be old-fashioned, relatively elderly, and dominated by EC players and classical music. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I felt I didn't fit in. Apart from my age, I was an anglo player, playing folk music by ear, and I sensed that all of these were slightly looked down upon.

 

That was how I felt at about that time too. Indeed when I first joined the committee about 10 years ago there was at least one member who took extreme umbrage at the thought of an anglo player on the committee (God knows what they must have made of Kenneth Loveless). Fortunately those days are long past and though I have now left the committee it is for personal reasons and not for any dissatisfaction with the current committee, who I would commend as a hard working bunch doing their level best for all concertina players, members or no.

 

Chris

[Dirge]

I think I've got my answer, thank you; it's about what I'd guessed.

 

Chris was posting while I was, so I would add that I have an enormously positive view of the ICA as well.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Dirge

[hjcjones]

I imagine the rest of the ICA were too terrified of Father Ken to say anything!

 

He was actually the other adjudicator at the competition the year I played. He seemed to be willing to listen to what I was playing, whereas the other (a "proper musician") complained that she couldn't tell if my harmonies were right without a full score in front of her.

[hjcjones]

Re-reading my original post, it occurs to me that quite a few of those "elderly" ICA members were probably around the age I am now . I must be more careful what words I choose.

 

A few years ago I arrived to play at a gig to see the hall bedecked with "Happy 50th Birthday" banners. Oh no, I thought, it will be full of old people. Then I remembered I was 51...

[Dirge]

I found the ICA setup to be old-fashioned, relatively elderly, and dominated by EC players and classical music. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I felt I didn't fit in. Apart from my age, I was an anglo player, playing folk music by ear, and I sensed that all of these were slightly looked down upon.

 

.......

 

 

I enjoyed the day, and was gratified to have won something, but it felt a bit like visiting a native village during an exotic holiday - a curiosity but not something I felt any connection with. Even if I had lived in London I don't think the ICA would have had anything to offer me, and I let my membership lapse.

 

I can't shed any light on why the competitions came to an end. Presumably there wasn't enough support for them to justify the cost of running them. My impression, then and later, was that the ICA was out of touch with the younger generation of concertina players, who were mostly from the folk world.

 

 

I had much the same from a long-standing member; he said when he first joined the average ICA member's view seemed to be that there were proper concertinas (duets), Englishes, (like poor duets really) and those other things, well were they really concertinas at all? Not everyone agreed with that; if you look at the ICA library website the music was categorised into 'Concertina', 'Duet' and 'Anglo' by some past librarian...

 

(as a 52 year old duet player playing more and more classical music I wouldn't dare comment on any of this)

 

You might find the ICA more useful these days, Howard; I think it really is very wide ranging. There's a regular music supplement which is usually folk-aimed for starters.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Dirge