eskin Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm curious, does anyone make an English concertina with a smaller number of buttons, more along the lines of the sort of range I've developed for my iPhone apps used in its limited Treble range (D4-C6)? I've had a few people who are now interested in trying a real instrument ask me if there are actual instruments optimized for this range, without all the higher/lower octave keys. It might make for a lighter, and perhaps more ergonomically comfortable instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Gosh, a regular 48 button E/C treble could hardly be called heavy or uncomfortable to play. It is true you may not need those highest notes, but the low can hardly be called superfluous. ( hence the good number of tenor/ trebles ) The Button Box makes a Morse 39 button EC hybrid ( Albion ) with a few less notes, and I think It works fine. The Morse concertinas are as light as you could want. Hard to think of how to optimize an EC for Irish music. other than leaving off the notes that are meant for mice to hear. There are so many ways to play the stuff I'd hate to spoil my options by leaving off a bunch of notes someone else thought weren't needed. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindizzy Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm curious, does anyone make an English concertina with a smaller number of buttons, more along the lines of the sort of range I've developed for my iPhone apps used in its limited Treble range (D4-C6)? I've had a few people who are now interested in trying a real instrument ask me if there are actual instruments optimized for this range, without all the higher/lower octave keys. It might make for a lighter, and perhaps more ergonomically comfortable instrument. There are some 30-something button wheatstones - I think Mayfairs from the 50's. And the Jackie misses out some buttons (some of the duplicated accidentals and a few at the ends of the range, but the Jackie isn't very small or light! Chris ps there are certainly quite a few tunes in both English and Irish Trad that go down below D4 ... and I'd really miss those bottom notes if they were left off. I can't think anything I play that goes above C6, unless I'm deliberately playing an octave up for variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david fabre Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 On his website, A.C. Norman proposes 32key, 20key and miniature English concertinas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskin Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 On his website, A.C. Norman proposes 32key, 20key and miniature English concertinas. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Cayford Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm curious, does anyone make an English concertina with a smaller number of buttons, more along the lines of the sort of range I've developed for my iPhone apps used in its limited Treble range (D4-C6)? I've had a few people who are now interested in trying a real instrument ask me if there are actual instruments optimized for this range, without all the higher/lower octave keys. It might make for a lighter, and perhaps more ergonomically comfortable instrument. The 30 button Jackie has exactly the range of your treble range plus the additional lower row from your alto range. The 37 button Albion is the same but goes one note higher (D). The Albion is very light and ergonomically comfortable. The Jackie less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskin Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) I'm curious, does anyone make an English concertina with a smaller number of buttons, more along the lines of the sort of range I've developed for my iPhone apps used in its limited Treble range (D4-C6)? I've had a few people who are now interested in trying a real instrument ask me if there are actual instruments optimized for this range, without all the higher/lower octave keys. It might make for a lighter, and perhaps more ergonomically comfortable instrument. The 30 button Jackie has exactly the range of your treble range plus the additional lower row from your alto range. The 37 button Albion is the same but goes one note higher (D). The Albion is very light and ergonomically comfortable. The Jackie less so. A chromatic range of G3 to D6 would be perfect, thanks for the info! I found recently trying a vintage English instrument for the first time, I was surprised to find that the buttons that sat under my fingers naturally were the higher octave, was curious if anyone made one that was a bit more optimized for IRTrad, glad to hear there are some options. I'll pass the info along, also add it to my app website so people who want to transition from the app to a real instrument can have a good option. Edited February 4, 2010 by eskin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wild Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm curious, does anyone make an English concertina with a smaller number of buttons, more along the lines of the sort of range I've developed for my iPhone apps used in its limited Treble range (D4-C6)? I've had a few people who are now interested in trying a real instrument ask me if there are actual instruments optimized for this range, without all the higher/lower octave keys. It might make for a lighter, and perhaps more ergonomically comfortable instrument. see attached photo (I hope I have done that bit correctly). this has 26 keys starting on the g above middle C and going up to an F - almost 2 octaves, but all the semitones in between are there. regards John Wild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskin Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 The photo ended up quite tiny, any chance for a closeup of the side? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Eskin, I had the pleasure of meeting Henrik Mueller last year and seeing his own made EC optimised for ITM. Fewer buttons, the keyboard tilted, I think, and a handstrap and handrest. As a non-player of EC I couldn't try it out, but the handstrap interested me. His playing had the bite of an anglo player and it seemed to me this came from the strap. Overall it is a successful instrument, hope he makes more. He did mention missing some of the omitted buttons. I have a good EC/ITM friend here and he tilts the concertina back slightly and says when he gets one made it will be a tenor. No need for the upper notes and the extra bottom ones would be handy. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 The 30 button Jackie has exactly the range of your treble range plus the additional lower row from your alto range. The 37 button Albion is the same but goes one note higher (D). The Albion is very light and ergonomically comfortable. The Jackie less so. I found it to be opposite. Jackie has wider spaced buttons and better designed thumb bracket. Morse is faster, but it's sound is not any better than Jackie's with the price 6 times up. Jackie is bigger and slightly heavier, but if played sitting, doesn't feel any heavier. There is miniature Stagi, but I think it's too small. When you say, "fitted for ITM", do you mean simply diatonic range in the key of D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskin Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 The 30 button Jackie has exactly the range of your treble range plus the additional lower row from your alto range. The 37 button Albion is the same but goes one note higher (D). The Albion is very light and ergonomically comfortable. The Jackie less so. I found it to be opposite. Jackie has wider spaced buttons and better designed thumb bracket. Morse is faster, but it's sound is not any better than Jackie's with the price 6 times up. Jackie is bigger and slightly heavier, but if played sitting, doesn't feel any heavier. There is miniature Stagi, but I think it's too small. When you say, "fitted for ITM", do you mean simply diatonic range in the key of D? No, I mean a full chromatic range from G3 to D6. The main range used for ITM on a standard C/G Anglo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wild Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 The photo ended up quite tiny, any chance for a closeup of the side? Thanks! I thought I had one, but it is not on my computer. I will take another over the weekend regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 No, I mean a full chromatic range from G3 to D6. The main range used for ITM on a standard C/G Anglo. Why ITM, Michael? If it is a replica of an English system concertina, then surely it should be the main range used in ETM on an EC. Below is a picture of the standard button layout on a 48 key treble English concertina. Most tunes are played in the mid-range. You could do away with the bottom 2 notes on the left side, A & Ab, starting with middle C, and on the right side, lose the bottom first four notes, G#, G, B & Bb. At the top end of the range, you could probably get away with stopping at C & C# on the left side and dropping the 6 remaining notes above. On the right side, you can go up to D & D#, leaving out the remaining 4 notes above. This gives you 32 notes, 4 rows of 4 notes each side, which is just over two full octaves. If that is still too many, then you could lose a note or two, top and bottom. I hope this is of some help. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 A nice one. So here is same drawing with missing notes, that represent Jackie Treble. And here is Jackie's range, the way it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) Thanks, Chris - I have come to the point where I do miss a few more buttons (but only a few!), especially the high C that I forgot (roaring laughter in the background, fair enough). Coincidentally, this very afternoon I fumbled around playing in E (which I never, never do), but I was intrigued by the first track on Noel Hill's "Irish Concertina 2", which is played on an (E/A? - correct me, anglo-players). Anyway, everything ends up a tone higher, hence the bright sound. And I did miss a high Eb, there. I would also add the Ab (I dropped it, thinking I'd be OK with the G#). The left side is here (photo 1) - look at it as a standard 48-key, with some buttons missing (yes, the high C) /Henrik Edited February 5, 2010 by Henrik Müller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro_squeezer Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I would guess that you could get one of Wimi's MIDI concertinas and then change the buttons on a whim . "What shall I play today? EC, Diatonic, Duet .... " Yipes! I saw a fellow with a MIDI button accordion do that at the Pittsburgh Hofbrau Haus a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_boveri Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 i think that while you're at it, why not have an english concertina in the key of D? i think that would really make it optimized for irish music, and you could still have it fully chromatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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