Hayden vs Wicki -- Parallel Handrest

[ragtimer]

I modified my Elise Hayden Duet so that the handrest bars are parallel to the button rows, instead of sloped 10.5 degrees according to the Hayden standard.

 

The purpose was to see whether this would make reaching the notes easier for the pinky baby finger.

 

It's really hard to say for certain, given the short rows of the Elise, but I'm sure that on wider rows (more sharp/flat buttons) the pinky would welcome the relief. Certainly my bandoneon (shown in my avatar) would benfit, but its fretwork leaves no room to move the handrest (drat!).

 

How did I do it? Swing the end of the palm bar that's farther from the butons, upwards till the bar is parallel. This requires drilling just one new 1/8" hole in the wooden end plate. You have to take the end apart to locate the new hole and undo the existing screw, which you will re-use in the new hole.

 

The attached photo shows how I located the new hole, using a business card as a ruler. Note how the top edge of the card runs evenly thru the button row, picking up the row's direction. The lower edge of the card is lined up with the existing screw hole on the right (which you will continue to use), and you use the low ege on the left to draw a pencil line.

Hard to see (probably I hadn't done them yet) are pencil marks on the lower card edge to measure the distance along the pencil line for the new hole.

 

Anyway, I scored on the first try, both ends. Meaning that the new holes lined up with the hole in the handrest bar, so I didn't need to ream out hte holes.

 

After you reassemble the concertina, the old hole will be visible just below the palm bar, but hard to see on that black finish, and hidden under your hand anyway.

 

I urge Elise owners to try this and see how it feels.

--Mike K.

Edited February 2, 2010 by ragtimer

[Ross]

I modified my Elise Hayden Duet so that the handrest bars are parallel to the button rows, instead of sloped 10.5 degrees according to the Hayden standard.

 

The purpose was to see whether this would make reaching the notes easier for the pinky baby finger.

 

It's really hard to say for certain, given the short rows of the Elise, but I'm sure that on wider rows (more sharp/flat buttons) the pinky would welcome the relief. Certainly my bandoneon (shown in my avatar) would benfit, but its fretwork leaves no room to move the handrest (drat!).

 

How did I do it? Swing the end of the palm bar that's farther from the butons, upwards till the bar is parallel. This requires drilling just one new 1/8" hole in the wooden end plate. You have to take the end apart to locate the new hole and undo the existing screw, which you will re-use in the new hole.

 

The attached photo shows how I located the new hole, using a business card as a ruler. Note how the top edge of the card runs evenly thru the button row, picking up the row's direction. The lower edge of the card is lined up with the existing screw hole on the right (which you will continue to use), and you use the low ege on the left to draw a pencil line.

Hard to see (probably I hadn't done them yet) are pencil marks on the lower card edge to measure the distance along the pencil line for the new hole.

 

Anyway, I scored on the first try, both ends. Meaning that the new holes lined up with the hole in the handrest bar, so I didn't need to ream out hte holes.

 

After you reassemble the concertina, the old hole will be visible just below the palm bar, but hard to see on that black finish, and hidden under your hand anyway.

 

I urge Elise owners to try this and see how it feels.

--Mike K.

 

When I get the chance, I'm hoping to make up an adjustable arrangement to see if I can improve the feel and finger / button relationship.

[ragtimer]

When I get the chance, I'm hoping to make up an adjustable arrangement to see if I can improve the feel and finger / button relationship.

Ross, we have a photo of a prototype adjustab;le handle that one of the members built up. It adjusts in both X and Y, and also can be rotated (so dial WIck or Hayden slant, or whatever).

 

I'll post the photo when I get more time. Bob Tedrow has seen it in the "flesh".

 

Disclaimer: Note I am NOT saying Bob or anyone else would be willing to build it, or even that it can be made practicalm, but we've been working on it (two other guys and me).

--Mike K.

Edited February 3, 2010 by ragtimer

[Jim Albea]

When I get the chance, I'm hoping to make up an adjustable arrangement to see if I can improve the feel and finger / button relationship.

Ross, we have a photo of a prototype adjustab;le handle that one of the members built up. It adjusts in both X and Y, and also can be rotated (so dial WIck or Hayden slant, or whatever).

 

I'll post the photo when I get more time. Bob Tedrow has seen it in the "flesh".

 

--Mike K.

 

Since I did the design and prototype of this adjustable handle I'll take the liberty of posting the link to the photos:

 

adjustable handle

[ragtimer]

When I get the chance, I'm hoping to make up an adjustable arrangement to see if I can improve the feel and finger / button relationship.

Ross, we have a photo of a prototype adjustab;le handle that one of the members built up. It adjusts in both X and Y, and also can be rotated (so dial WIck or Hayden slant, or whatever).

 

I'll post the photo when I get more time. Bob Tedrow has seen it in the "flesh".

 

--Mike K.

 

Since I did the design and prototype of this adjustable handle I'll take the liberty of posting the link to the photos:

 

adjustable handle

Thanks Jim. I had some of your pix all ready to post here, but you saved me the trouble.

 

Of special intrest is #1851 (3rd from left, middle row), showing adjustable slant (way more in the pic than anyone would ever need).

 

We had this prototype on display at NESI last year -- anyone notice it?

--Mike K.

[Ross]

I made up a temporary palm bar out of some scrap wood to try out some alternate positions for my Elise. When I pivoted the pinkie end in to parallel with the buttons, my pinkie could reach more buttons, but it seemed that middle fingers ended up too close. This also pivoted all of my fingers toward the thumb. My next move was to move the pinkie end away from the buttons a little to about 3 degrees and end-ways 3/8 inch toward the pinkie. I realize that there are many hand sizes and preferences, but this seems to line up pretty good with my fingers. Once I get the best feel, I'll make up some permanent handles or just remount the original ones.

[ragtimer]

I made up a temporary palm bar out of some scrap wood to try out some alternate positions for my Elise. When I pivoted the pinkie end in to parallel with the buttons, my pinkie could reach more buttons, but it seemed that middle fingers ended up too close. This also pivoted all of my fingers toward the thumb. My next move was to move the pinkie end away from the buttons a little to about 3 degrees and end-ways 3/8 inch toward the pinkie. I realize that there are many hand sizes and preferences, but this seems to line up pretty good with my fingers. Once I get the best feel, I'll make up some permanent handles or just remount the original ones.

Good, Ross! Some of us have talked about the sideways adjustment, and the prototype 3-way handle allows for it, but you're the first person to have actually done it -- moved a handrest sideways.

 

I can see where shifting it towards the pinky could improve the reach of that little finger. Maybe that's at least as important as rotating the pinky end up towards the buttons.

 

So now you still have 3 degrees of Hayden slant left in the handle? Sounds fine to me.

 

Keep us posted, and thanks -- Mike K.

[Don Taylor]

I have just acquired a used Elise.

 

My first impressions with the Hayden system is very positive, but the set up for the hand rest on the Elise is only comfortable for playing in C. For me anyway.

 

I see that there has been discussions about changing the slant and/or moving the handrail.

 

Now that some time has passed, I wonder what Elise owners think and if they have made any permanent changes to the hand rail position.

 

I should note that my hand rail was blocked up by about 3/8" by a previous owner.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Don Taylor

[Geoff Wooff]

The higher handrail might be a good idea... I must try that.

 

I took a rule to the keyboards of two Haydens (of different makes) with the Wicki layout recently and found that they differed quite a lot in the reach from hand rail to keys but I also found both comfortable and did not notice this measured difference. Perhaps I had the straps adjusted to suit my finger span distance ?