Irish Trad frustration

[LHMark]

You know, I really have no right to whinge. I've only been practicing the concertina seriously for about a year and a half, and to suggest that I should be good at Trad is almost an insult to those who've devoted a lifetime of passion into expressing this beautiful music.

 

That said, it gets maddening at times, trying to take a tune like "Swallowtail Jig" or "Drowsy Maggie" and develop speed, control and fluidity. Trying to get the same tempo and feel from the lower-register notes, which require a different level of pressure to play then the higher ones, seamlessly blending the A parts and B parts And, once I start getting somewhere with that, I realize there's a series of deeper layers: learning appropriate ornamentation, developing that little bounce, etc.

 

I don't really have a point to this, just needed to say that sometimes a few simple notes on a staff can veil the start of a long journey, and right now, I'm traveling at about 80 beats per minute. At least the trip is enjoyable.

[Eric Barker]

I hear you. ITM can be very frustrating. On the other hand, Irish music still has many regional styles. You might find that you really like the music from Clare for example. You can spend more time listening to Clare music and searching for tutors in that style. I think each style has difficulties but if you focus on one style instead of many styles you will sooner achieve a high standard of playing. At this time I have been enjoying the clips Peter L. provided of Kitty Hayes. And I enjoy the concertina work in The Lonely Stranded Band. Of course, you might find sessions in your area that will dictate how you play. All-in-all it is fun and you should find helpful people along the way. Good luck! Eric in Montana

[petec]

Yes, I was told by a teacher in miltown that he set himself the target of learning the concertina in 10 years. at the end of the 10 years he decided to give himself another 10 years. It's probably not that difficult but you get the point, just keep going! Also when i asked how people managed to play at such speeds he said forget about speed, just play the tunes, he was right. Speed comes easily later.

[lmc]

I am also learning the AC for about 2 1/2 years now. I came to it because I was fascinated with the instrument, not particularly because of ITM. I have no background in ITM, didn't grow up listening to it and came to it very late. Having said all that, I am enjoying learning the tunes immensely, even though I know I regularly butcher them, I still enjoy them. I don't hear the hidden note, or the differing rhythms, and can't really always tell the difference between a hornpipe and a reel (horrors!) but the enjoyment that I am getting from learning is way more than the frustration from the difficulty.

 

I am hooked and delighted to be learning ITM alongside my beloved concertina.

 

Leonor

Edited January 29, 2010 by lmc

[Captain Mike Plymouth]

It is really nice to hear that someone else has frustrations with the instrument. Some days I start to sound almost good, other days I might as well be playing with my elbows. But it's fun and I keep trying!

[ceemonster]

It is really nice to hear that someone else has frustrations with the instrument. Some days I start to sound almost good, other days I might as well be playing with my elbows. But it's fun and I keep trying!

you know....there is a lot of nonsense out there about so-and-so or such-and-such who allegedly became a stone virtuoso in a year or two and is shredding up the tunes at 130 on the metronome and stuff like that. but it is nonsense. non-irish learners and most especially those who begin in adulthood, do not understand that it takes years to be able to play nicely, and even longer to be able to play with fluency or do justice to a traditional idiom or style. there is a phase for kids in ireland once they get to an advanced level of playing---they then marinate there, at a stage of controlled, relaxed-speed (not draggy slow, but not hyper-fast) lovely playing for a period of years before going to that next level of getting really fast (for those who even want to) or improvising or varying or whatever. many adult non-irish learners shoot themselves in the foot by trying to skip that phase.....

 

the part that you CAN speed up is to listen all the time, in the car as well as the house, and also to get as much "face time" seeing good players, as you can---workshops, sessions, youtube, comhaltas live videos, etc. if you are also practicing, the "face time" exposure and the listening WILL start to rub off......

Edited January 29, 2010 by ceemonster

[s2maur]

It is really nice to hear that someone else has frustrations with the instrument. Some days I start to sound almost good, other days I might as well be playing with my elbows. But it's fun and I keep trying!

you know....there is a lot of nonsense out there about so-and-so or such-and-such who allegedly became a stone virtuoso in a year or two and is shredding up the tunes at 130 on the metronome and stuff like that. but it is nonsense. non-irish learners and most especially those who begin in adulthood, do not understand that it takes years to be able to play nicely, and even longer to be able to play with fluency or do justice to a traditional idiom or style. there is a phase for kids in ireland once they get to an advanced level of playing---they then marinate there, at a stage of controlled, relaxed-speed (not draggy slow, but not hyper-fast) lovely playing for a period of years before going to that next level of getting really fast (for those who even want to) or improvising or varying or whatever. many adult non-irish learners shoot themselves in the foot by trying to skip that phase.....

 

the part that you CAN speed up is to listen all the time, in the car as well as the house, and also to get as much "face time" seeing good players, as you can---workshops, sessions, youtube, comhaltas live videos, etc. if you are also practicing, the "face time" exposure and the listening WILL start to rub off......

 

Ceemonster,

 

As one of those non-Irish adult learners, for the past ten years, I appreciate a good reminder, such as yours, to be patient with my learning. I have played many other instruments in my lifetime and to date, the only ones that I have even had any possibility of being proficient at are those that I have played and practiced on daily (such as the harmonica and the concertina) and for those which involve my listening to at concerts or on cd, tapes, youtube, etc and those for which I go to workshops, such as the Noel Hill Irish Concertina School here in the U.S.

Thanks for helping me to keep a realistic perspective on my playing concertina in the Irish style and tradition.

Now, if I can just remember where I put that recipe for a Traditional Irish Style Marinate, I'll be on my way to playing better reels and jigs.

 

Steve

[michael sam wild]

Sadly in England to marinate or 'To stew in your own juice' means, not to steadily improve - but to be left to suffer the consquences of your wrong actions. Like taking up the Anglo and losing your missus and your kids and your house and your furniture....... Funny how they leave the concertinas when they go unless they jump up and down on them or slash the bellows

 

 

seriously soak it all up and play steadily and with rhythm. it's dance music first and foremost , appropriate speed comes with time

Edited April 12, 2010 by michael sam wild

[LHMark]

One thing I take to heart from the trad musicians I know is that speed in itself is not the goal. When I speak of speed in my playing, I just want to build enough to play along with everyone else

[piper@heart]

I devoted 30 years to playing uilleann pipes, and have had a concertina for almost 10 years now. I had little or no trouble with the pipes, playing up to speed, regulators in tune, it actually seemed much easier than the fiddle to me. But I have had zero natural aptitude on the trad. concertina, so instead, I try to work out clever bass notes and chords for other kinds of music, mostly very corny, (today it was "Laura's Theme" from Dr. Zhivago.) So I figure I'm not going to play all the irish session tunes that I can play on the pipes but at least I'm having fun with some O'Carolan and other slower stuff. And there sure are a LOT more complex chords than there are available on the pipes. And the concertina isn't so @#$%&*! loud. And I don't have to tune it. And it's cheaper. Man, come to think of it, I wish I had spent 30 years on the concertina instead.

[ceemonster]

not to go way off topic but since pipes have come up, i have been wondering this: are there smaller pipe sets than the full-size that are smaller in the sense of actually, SMALLER as opposed to the way "half-set" is usually meant--full size but without the drones or whatever? i wish to learn pipes, but i found it painful to try to stretch my fingers to cover the holes. it's a big span for me. are there smaller-scaled ones?

[piper@heart]

You must not try to cover the holes with the fingertips. If you hold it properly, there is no stretch at all.

[Lawrence Reeves]

Although it would seem the opposite, pipes in lower pitch have smaller holes to cover. A set in C or B may bey a very nice alternative to concert pitched d pipes. That said, be careful as mentioned about which part of the fingers can cover the holes. A flat hand approach with the fat of the middle joint covers many of the holes. Sent me a PM and I will give more suggestions about the similarities of uilleann pipe and concertina playing. I might be getting anew set of pipes after a long lapse. Then again, I might come back to my senses.

[geoffwright]

You are better learning to play slowly in F,D,A etc. that pick up speed in 2 keys.

[Anglo-Irishman]

You are better learning to play slowly in F,D,A etc. that pick up speed in 2 keys.

 

Geoff,

This is in line with my thoughts on the subject. There are two approaches to any instrument: learning the instrument itself, and learning pieces of music on it. From what I read here, it seems that ITM people concetrate on learning tunes on the Anglo, and above all getting them "up to speed".

 

To my mind, if you really learn your instrument, you should be able to play any tune on it (any tune you know and identify with, that is. Probably no single concertinist can - or would want to - play all tunes from all genres!)

 

My experience with several instruments has been that, once I've got my mind and fingers round the quirks of the instrument, my style of music starts to emerge. Learning the instrument simply removes the impediments to letting out the music that's inside you.

 

Cheers,

John

[michael sam wild]

I agree with the last few posts.

 

I'm 70 this and played other instruments, mainly melodeon, for many years but most seriously from the 70s. I only could afford a good Anglo concertina when I retired so I've only been seriously at it for about 5 years.

 

 

I have practised an average of about 2 hours per day and gone to sessions and workshops and filled 9 thick diaries! Mick Bramich's book has been a godsend in many ways.

 

 

I still feel I've got a long way to go with reels at a danceable speed but feel OK with most other tunes.

 

 

Last weekend I was in an 'Irish' session playing with strangers ( not strangers for long) who were excellent and knew each other well and it felt great for about 3 hours and realised that we were playing a lot of tunes that were embedded but not ones I practice a lot ( I obviously listen to all the anglo players I can as well as other instruments and styles and play along wherever I can without a slow downer. I play by ear though I have learned to read dots and ABc in my Oddysey)

 

So I've found my way round the instrument (26 button Jeffries ) and the various button/ note opportunities and chord positions . It felt like 'coming home'

 

 

For the last week it's been like an epiphany and I feel that my journey has been productive, it's certainly been challenging and rewarding in itself but my aim has always been to play with and for others in a communal and supportive setting.

 

 

Last night I went to a great 'English' session which I have hesitated to go to with the Anglo, and felt the same so there has been transfer across genres. We ended up with a lot of improvisation and harmonisation which was based on trust and support and skill amongst the regular session crowd who have members of a couple of bands so they listen to each other rather than just plough on with what they have learned as individuals)

 

 

It felt like when I was in a free form jazz band in my youth.

 

 

Like any other musical device the concertina is an 'instrument' with a system that we need to master to express our inner voice and spirit. All the listening and socialising and dancing etc plus the 'crack' goes to infuse the store of music we want to express, and it takes time !

[JimLucas]

It is really nice to hear that someone else has frustrations with the instrument.

HERESY ALERT!! I still have frustrations playing Irish on the anglo, but never did on the English.

 

Some days I start to sound almost good, other days I might as well be playing with my elbows.

So on those days you should practice the uilleann pipes.