Fingering suggestions or "Drowsy Maggie?"

[LHMark]

Hi guys. I'm trying to increase my fluidity and tempo for that classic smash-hit Irish tune "Drowsy Maggie." I start fine, but the wheels come off when I'm doing the B-A-B-C# D-A-F# G. I'm playing a morce Ceili C/G Anglo, and hitting that c#, if using the right hand middle row B/C key, involves an awkward middle finger/index finger crossover. Conversely, when I switch to playing the B-A-B notes on the left hand in the G-row, there's a bellows shift I can't quite nail down.

 

I realize It's just gonna require time and practice, but wanted to ask Irish style players which method makes the most sense before I bust my butt learning the wrong one. Thanks.

[david_boveri]

i would say to not play it entirely in the G row. here is how i would play that sequence of BABc#

 

(i'm going off the version here: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/27 ).

 

in the first part:

 

B: pull, first finger, C row, right hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

in the second part:

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

here is some reasoning behind all that:

in the first part, there is no reason to use push B before A. just use the pull B, as it is a better sounding note, and the one you are clearly more used to.

 

there is no reason to go to 3rd finger A row in the G row. it is a weaker finger, and note one you are used to using. use first finger A, as it is on your strongest finger, and the one you use by default. in the second part, in the version i posted, there is a c# before the B in the BABc# sequence. this means i would use B push. you could play the sequence the same way in both halves of the tune, but i would not. i think it is a good exercise on flexibility. however, if it is too difficult for you right now to learn to play it two different ways only for contextual optimization, do what is best for you.

 

the B push is the easiest way to accomplish the B to C# problem. crossing over is clumsy and difficult. if you have difficult training your fingers to use an alternate fingering, this is a great time to practice, as being able to use alternate fingerings naturally is essential to anglo playing. for the most part, it is usually preferable to use an alternate fingering than to jump or cross fingers. this is not always the case, and jumping and finger crossinge are essential in certain situations, but usually only when you are playing accidentals, very high or very low notes, or when you want a highly specific sound for phrasing. i consider jumping and crossing to be advanced technique.

 

note this is all moot if you have a jeffries layout. for jeffries i would just use the pull B the entire time, and then second finger C#.

Edited January 25, 2010 by david_boveri

[LHMark]

Thanks David! That's working better already.

[angloplayer]

Hi David

 

Thanks for the effort you have put in your answer re: Drowsy Maggie. Your suggestions below are very useful.

 

 

(i'm going off the version here: http://www.thesessio...unes/display/27 ).

 

in the first part:

 

B: pull, first finger, C row, right hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

in the second part:

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

I wonder why you are not considering the A: push, first finger, accidental row. I know that you should use your second finger for this button, but it is not really difficult to do.

 

More interesting for me is how you play the first bar with the E B E d E B E sequence. My guess (fwiw) is that you better use a GD concertina for a tune like this (unless your Anglo has so may extra buttons that it is almost an EC after a serious accident ).

Edited January 28, 2010 by angloplayer

[david_boveri]

Hi David

 

Thanks for the effort you have put in your answer re: Drowsy Maggie. Your suggestions below are very useful.

 

 

(i'm going off the version here: http://www.thesessio...unes/display/27 ).

 

in the first part:

 

B: pull, first finger, C row, right hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

in the second part:

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

A: pull, first finger, C row, left hand

B: push, second finger, G row, left hand

c#: push, first finger, accidental row, right hand

 

I wonder why you are not considering the A: push, first finger, accidental row. I know that you should use your second finger for this button, but it is not really difficult to do.

 

you will end up using your first finger for this note, not the second. consider on wheatstone you will need to use push B to go nicely to c#, this means that you will have to press:

 

B: push, left hand, middle finger

A: push, left hand, pointer finger

B: push, left hand, middle finger

c#: push, right hand, pointer fointer

 

that is a clarification of how i would finger it, and now why i would not do it that way...

 

the biggest reason for me overall is the sound of the note. the read is directly underneath the logo on a traditional, radial pan, linota design. it is very muted. i only use this button for chords and while playing in certain keys in very specific situations. i will occasionally use the button (especially pull G) for ending a phrase as a variation, just to get that different sound. the second most important reason i would not use it is for phrasing. i do not think it adds anything to the phrasing to do most of that phrase on the push. i guess in this situation phrasing is more important, but in general i do not use push A because the tone of the note.

 

another reason is that the more you change from what you are used to, the more difficult it will be--i assume that everyone first learns the first finger A in the C row, and uses it as their primary A, considering all other A's as alternate fingerings. i prefer to first change button, then change direction. that is why if you can say use third finger A next to Bb (in another tune), i prefer that to using the push A, as you have to both change finger and direction in order to use push A, whereas third finger A requires only the change of finger, maintaining the pull of first finger A (the norm). the reason i think this is important is that the schematical representation for the note contains both button location and direction (that is a fancy way for saying that in your head you remember it as where it is and how you pull it). if you are playing, the more things you change from what your home base, the more you will be likely to mess up up. this is why push B (left hand side, G row, second finger) can be so frustrating. you are changing from the right side of the instrument to the left, changing from push to pull, and using the second rather than the first button. i consider it necessary, but it is so difficult because you are changing so many things, and i prefer to change as few things as possible from your "home base" in as many situations as possible.

 

to use push A, you are also changing your position on the concertina. when are fingers are in home position, that is first position on the concertina. to play ABAc# with push A, you end up needing to cross your finger over. i find this unnecessary, as you are forced to change button, direction, and putting your middle finger into second position, aka crossing it over. (now please do not get technical with numbering. it is first position, though i might prefer it were called zero position, as technically you could have a negative position, too). so, if we use push A, then we are changing direction, button, finger (compared to first finger A in the C row), position/crossing over, ALL FOR A NOTE that is muffled and weak in tone. to me it seems there is all pain and no gain in tone or phrasing.

 

sometimes in the short term, certain solutions seem easier because they are easier to wrap your head around, but if you take a mental representation view, they are actually more difficult, because you are actually changing more things. people often view the idea of changing bellow direction as overwhelming, but if you look at the larger picture, it is just only one possible criterion that goes into building the mental/motor instruction set of how to play each particular note in a tune. if you view the bellows as one descriptor in a mental representation of a note, then it is clear that you would rather change one characteristic of a representation, rather than all but one. please note that over time, representations can become quite complex, as there is not only the finger, side, button, and direction of a note, but also how it sounds, how it is controlled (every note takes a different attack to speak optimally), as well as how each note interacts with specific chords or melodic sequences (does it make a chord impossible, does it mean you have to change another note nearby, etc).

 

there are instances i do use push button A, but not if i were just going to be playing that particular passage, without chords. in general, there are indeed instances where you may try to make your life more difficult if the cost is worth it. for example, i am working on the old pensioner right now, and in order to mimic the pipes in phrasing, i have to end up using pull c# on the right hand, in addition to pull B and D to play the sequence |B3c# dAFA|. on my layout (carroll preferred), this means that i have to pull B with the first finger, pull c# with my second finger (crossing over) and finally grabbing pull d with my ring finger while droning a low pull D. this really trips me up, as i do not often play pull D on right hand with my ring finger. also, consider the fact that i do this as a variation, and have to be able to play it more normally, as well as that way. this is definitely worth it, as the effect is wonderful. i would not recommend going through such contortions for no good reason! most of the time it is not worth it.

 

 

More interesting for me is how you play the first bar with the E B E d E B E sequence. My guess (fwiw) is that you better use a GD concertina for a tune like this (unless your Anglo has so may extra buttons that it is almost an EC after a serious accident ).

 

i play this part:

E push, B pull, E push, d pull, E push, B pull, E push. (if we consider it to be |E2BE dEBE|)

 

now that i think about it, this surprises me. i would think i would be more likely to play the d on the push. i may be doing that to mimic bow movements on the fiddle, as that is what instrument i hear for that tune in my head. also, it is also very classic concertina sounding. some day i will go through my recordings to see what fingering noel hill recommended using when he taught the tune, but on his album (irish concertina 2), to my ear it sounds like he is doing push d. i think push d is much easier, and i think now that i have explicitly thought about it, i am probably going to start using push d, maintaining pull d as a variation. the push d adds and advantage of allowing you to lean more into the E, which makes the d pop even more.

 

so therefore i may recommend:

E push, B pull, E push, d PUSH, E push, B pull, E push

 

however, if the first version posted is easier, i would say go for it.

 

bellow changes should never be a problem in this sort of situation. they can be very overwhelming at first, but really, this sort of phrase can be done with a lot of bellow changes. push d may be a better option, as there is one less bellow change, and as you are jumping around a lot it is not necessary to add an extra change to get the bounce. if you use push d, it will sound smoother, but i would never use a push B in this situation. i would be more afraid of a whole measure in one direction than a whole measure with some bellows changes, because i would be afraid it would sound boring. as i said before in response to the other question, after a while bellows changes are not so overwhelming.

 

i do agree that it would definitely fit nicely on a G/D. care to offer me one?

Edited January 30, 2010 by david_boveri