The Nightmare Triplet

[Gerry]

This version of John ryan's Polka contains an E F# E triplet in the 4th bar. I can normally play E F# if its not too fast, but at the pace this one needs to be played - no chance. An octave higher and this triplet would be as easy as it gets, but sitting where it does its near unplayable. Some versions of this tune simply play the E, which is my choice. My question is: Would anybody actually play this triplet at speed on a c/g anglo?

[Lawrence Reeves]

Maybe a long note as a E quarter, or two eighths as E F# instead of the triplet. On many concertinas you could try a slap roll ( mentioned around here before)by pressing the E and tapping the body of the concertina right hand. It will give the desired rhythmic pulse without having to change buttons.

[Larryo]

Hi Gerry,

That triplet is definitely surplus to requirements.Just play F#,E,D.

[Steve_freereeder]

Hi Gerry,

That triplet is definitely surplus to requirements.Just play F#,E,D.

 

I agree with Larryo's post. Leaving out the triplet is fine. Far better to do this, rather than risk upsetting the flow of the music by fumbling the ornament.

 

However, having said that, if you really wanted to have a triplet in that place you could do it in one-row melodeon style by playing E G E, i.e. just going up to the next button on the row and back down again, all on the push. It's the effect you're after as much as anything, and going up to the G will sound just as good as going up to the more awkward F#.

 

 

 

Edited to correct stupid typo

Edited January 19, 2010 by Steve_freereeder

[koncertina]

why not play, e d e,or eee using two different fingers.

or even use the same finger, or just ee twice, in other words two notes in the space of three.

[Fergus_fiddler]

Maybe a long note as a E quarter, or two eighths as E F# instead of the triplet. On many concertinas you could try a slap roll ( mentioned around here before)by pressing the E and tapping the body of the concertina right hand. It will give the desired rhythmic pulse without having to change buttons.

 

The renowned phantom button!

 

I play it this way:

 

- Play, say, the F# in the LHS

- release it

- Play it again

- Tap anywere in the RHS -- i use the middle finger, but think index can do, too -.

- Release the note in the LHS

 

With enough speed and practice, you get a sound like a triplet. I've only managed to do it with my right had, but there are folk around able to do it with both hands...

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

[Gerry]

Well I guess the question is answered: nobody does.

 

Thanks for all the options. As I said, I currently just play an E rather than the E F# E triplet. A quick play suggests EGE is a possibility, but at the moment I'm losing the rhythm. I'll get it: it's just practice.

[Larryo]

Possibly the reason why it is not done is because it might not sound so well??? I have never heard it being played with a triplet at that part and it certainly doesn't sound good enough to warrant all the effort of trying to put it in !!!!

[TomB-R]

Possibly the reason why it is not done is because it might not sound so well??? I have never heard it being played with a triplet at that part and it certainly doesn't sound good enough to warrant all the effort of trying to put it in !!!!

 

I'd probably do a triplet or something on that note on the fiddle, (sometimes anyway, varying it in and out,) but when it comes to triplets or rolls on the fiddle first finger notes (E, B, F#) it might well be either the second or the third for the upper note. At a decent speed, the pitch of the "twiddle note" is hardly crucial.

[Larryo]

Possibly the reason why it is not done is because it might not sound so well??? I have never heard it being played with a triplet at that part and it certainly doesn't sound good enough to warrant all the effort of trying to put it in !!!!

 

I'd probably do a triplet or something on that note on the fiddle, (sometimes anyway, varying it in and out,) but when it comes to triplets or rolls on the fiddle first finger notes (E, B, F#) it might well be either the second or the third for the upper note. At a decent speed, the pitch of the "twiddle note" is hardly crucial.

I'd agree that the twiddle note on the fiddle is hardly crucial but I feel that unless a concertina was uber sensitive button wise, you'd be hard pushed( excuse the pun) to make the twiddle note sound unobtrusive and especially where there is a change of bellowsas is the case here.If yea really needed to ornament this part, I'd be more inclined to go with a G to cut the E.

[koncertina]

Another alternative is an octave triplet, or a triplet of the same pitch, with the octave held on underneath, this reduces the choppy effect.

[Fergus_fiddler]

Another alternative is an octave triplet, or a triplet of the same pitch, with the octave held on underneath, this reduces the choppy effect.

 

Indeed, that's one of the alternatives sugested by Mick Bramich in his book. Anyway, I've tried to 'triplet' or 'roll' a LHS note with a RHS one - anyone -. At enough speed, you can't tell the real pitch of it.

 

Edited to write: Took me a while to realise tht there's not reason for to carbon copy the phrasing, articulation & ornamentation of my fidlle tunes on concertina. It'a a totally different beast, so I do add or suppress certain things when it comes to be played in the box

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

Edited January 22, 2010 by Fergus_fiddler

[Kautilya]

Another alternative is an octave triplet, or a triplet of the same pitch, with the octave held on underneath, this reduces the choppy effect.

 

Indeed, that's one of the alternatives sugested by Mick Bramich in his book. Anyway, I've tried to 'triplet' or 'roll' a LHS note with a RHS one - anyone -. At enough speed, you can't tell the real pitch of it.

 

Edited to write: Took me a while to realise tht there's not reason for to carbon copy the phrasing, articulation & ornamentation of my fidlle tunes on concertina. It'a a totally different beast, so I do add or suppress certain things when it comes to be played in the box

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

MIDI

It may be my ears but reading Gerry's score link above and listening to the midi version below, the triplet seems to have completely vanished (click on Polka half way down page).

http://tonyupton.tripod.com/miditune.html

 

Fascinating discussion as I have only recently discovered (!) the F# on second from bottom left G row (20 Anglo)when trying to do "Sweet thames flow softly" toon on left hand C row, and am putting my left pinkie in full training...to reach down and back and then pick up the push G on top button C row with index.

 

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSWTHAMES;ttSWTHAMES.html

 

http://www.8notes.com/scores/6521.asp?ftype=midi

 

I also have two F#s on right hand, one at bottom and one at top of G row (pushing). But at presumably an octave higher they would sound odd if I used for the STFsoftly F#when I am playing the toon on the low left side.

 

I have 'never knowingly used those right G F# buttons, but presume they are standard or is there a new mystery for me to discover?

 

I am hoping someone will tell me that I should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

Then I can ask why I seem to be playing all the melodies on the left and not on the right side... as it seems most folk do and say they have trouble bringing in the left.......Praps that is for the left brain right brain thread somewhere else... I may have two dead brain halves....caused by my ever 'louder' deafness

[PeterT]

 

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSWTHAMES;ttSWTHAMES.html

 

http://www.8notes.com/scores/6521.asp?ftype=midi

 

I am hoping someone will tell me that I should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

 

You should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

If you play music, as written, much of the melody will drop onto the left hand. This will cause the effect of single line melody, without much scope for chords etc. If you transpose the music up an octave (in practice, it's easier to read the music "as is", but work out the fingering as if it was written an octave higher) this will move most melodies onto the right hand, freeing up the left hand for chords.

 

The only "down" side to this is that, on occasions, the music will be up the squeaky end on the right hand. If this is a problem, drop that section of the music back to the octave in which it is written. This might sound to be an odd practice, but seems to have been a traditional solution to this type of problem.

[Kautilya]

 

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSWTHAMES;ttSWTHAMES.html

 

http://www.8notes.com/scores/6521.asp?ftype=midi

 

I am hoping someone will tell me that I should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

 

You should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

If you play music, as written, much of the melody will drop onto the left hand. This will cause the effect of single line melody, without much scope for chords etc. If you transpose the music up an octave (in practice, it's easier to read the music "as is", but work out the fingering as if it was written an octave higher) this will move most melodies onto the right hand, freeing up the left hand for chords.

 

The only "down" side to this is that, on occasions, the music will be up the squeaky end on the right hand. If this is a problem, drop that section of the music back to the octave in which it is written. This might sound to be an odd practice, but seems to have been a traditional solution to this type of problem.

right Peter, Right... and squeaky :(

Is it unwise to tackle the challenge by hitting 2 buttons (and sometimes 3)simultaneously on the left with one finger to get to get chord effects and a "richer" sound (so avoiding the squeaky and sometimes unpleasant upper right octaves?)

[PeterT]

 

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiSWTHAMES;ttSWTHAMES.html

 

http://www.8notes.com/scores/6521.asp?ftype=midi

 

I am hoping someone will tell me that I should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

 

You should be playing the melody on the right side.

 

If you play music, as written, much of the melody will drop onto the left hand. This will cause the effect of single line melody, without much scope for chords etc. If you transpose the music up an octave (in practice, it's easier to read the music "as is", but work out the fingering as if it was written an octave higher) this will move most melodies onto the right hand, freeing up the left hand for chords.

 

The only "down" side to this is that, on occasions, the music will be up the squeaky end on the right hand. If this is a problem, drop that section of the music back to the octave in which it is written. This might sound to be an odd practice, but seems to have been a traditional solution to this type of problem.

right Peter, Right... and squeaky :(

Is it unwise to tackle the challenge by hitting 2 buttons (and sometimes 3)simultaneously on the left with one finger to get to get chord effects and a "richer" sound (so avoiding the squeaky and sometimes unpleasant upper right octaves?)

 

If you are trying to play both melody, and chords, on the same side, I would say "yes; unwise". You need to be able to make the melody stand out; sometimes achieved by playing the chords for a lesser duration than the written notation.

 

Melody, on the right hand, can sound squeaky, when played as single-line. However, when chords (one/two/three note, as appropriate) are added, the squeaky sound is not so obvious.

 

If you are just using chords, rather than melody+chords, for song accompaniment, I don't see why one finger should not be used to hold down more than one button.

[s2maur]

This version of John ryan's Polka contains an E F# E triplet in the 4th bar. I can normally play E F# if its not too fast, but at the pace this one needs to be played - no chance. An octave higher and this triplet would be as easy as it gets, but sitting where it does its near unplayable. Some versions of this tune simply play the E, which is my choice. My question is: Would anybody actually play this triplet at speed on a c/g anglo?

 

Gerry,

 

there are times when I like hearing that E F# E combination in a triplet. For instance; in "Lannigan's Ball" with sixth beat pickup on D then E F# E triplet and then to G quarter note and A eight to finish the first bar. Another is in the first bar of "Kid on the Mountain". If nothing else, these two tunes are good practice exercises to strengthen that pinky and improve your execution of that "Nightmare Triplet". Another, I might add, is Sharron Shannon's version of "Tickle Her Leg With A Barley Straw". That tune is great for strengthening and coordinating the LH middle, ring and pinky fingers. Watch out for the hand cramp if you practice that one for two long in the beginning.

 

Steve

[s2maur]

This version of John ryan's Polka contains an E F# E triplet in the 4th bar. I can normally play E F# if its not too fast, but at the pace this one needs to be played - no chance. An octave higher and this triplet would be as easy as it gets, but sitting where it does its near unplayable. Some versions of this tune simply play the E, which is my choice. My question is: Would anybody actually play this triplet at speed on a c/g anglo?

 

Gerry,

 

there are times when I like hearing that E F# E combination in a triplet. For instance; in "Lannigan's Ball" with sixth beat pickup on D then E F# E triplet and then to G quarter note and an A eighth note to finish the first bar. Another is in the first bar of "Kid on the Mountain". If nothing else, these two tunes are good practice exercises to strengthen that pinky and improve your execution of that "Nightmare Triplet". Another, I might add, is Sharron Shannon's version of "Tickle Her Leg With A Barley Straw". That tune is great for strengthening and coordinating the LH middle, ring and pinky fingers. Watch out for the hand cramp if you practice that one for two long in the beginning.

 

Steve