Metallic ping

[frogspawn]

I have a note (low B, right-hand) which I've noticed is now accompanied by an inappropriate metallic ping. This sounds like it might be the first item listed in the troubleshooting list in David Elliott's Maintenance Manual, i.e. the tongue is catching the frame, but this never happens if the note is sounded alone.

 

It typically happens when B is preceded by low F#, two buttons in fairly close proximity. For this reason, I only began to notice the problem in two particular tunes with this sequence, and even then it's taken me a while to work out exactly what was happening.

 

I haven't tried every possible sequence of button, but I've noticed that C# followed by B has the same effect, though slightly less pronounced. I've also noticed that the problem is particularly pronounced if I alternate the C# and F# buttons.

 

Is it a snicking problem on all three notes, or is something more complex occurring?

 

Richard

[frogspawn]

I've had another and closer look at the inside of the right-hand end and may have found the problem.

 

I don't see any evidence that the reeds are snicking and the springs all appear to be in good condition. The pad on the C# is not as well alligned as it might be, but there's no general problem with the C# sounding without being pressed. I'm just getting the problem already described, i.e. a tinkling sound when playing C#, F# and B in succession (any order).

 

I have noticed that the pad-board on the relevant edge appears to have suffered a crack or break historically, which has been repaired with glue. However, there is little or no sign of glue where the crack passes through the C#, F# and B holes which are contiguous. Although there is no general leakage when playing any of these notes in complete isolation from one another, the tinkling is quite obvious when playing them in sequence.

 

Does this make sense? Has anyone else encountered anything like this? Would smearing some PVA along the crack do the job? I would be very grateful for any feedback.

 

Richard

[frogspawn]

The PVA didn't eliminate the tinkling quality and I now have two other problems! The B is sounding without being pressed although the spring and pad look to be making a reasonable fit, and the end screws are getting a bit loose...

 

Enough of amateur tinkering. I'll have to find an expert.

 

Richard

[varney]

Hi Richard,

 

It's disappointing to see you didn't get any help here. I was keeping an eye on your thread to find out how it resolves, and when you do get it sorted please post the results.

 

I really thought you had sourced the cause of the problem when you repaired the crack.

 

I've done a fair bit of restoring on two Lachenal Anglos ( you'll see posts by me in various forums here ) and have managed to fix a lot of problems thanks to help from people here, the concertina manual or just persistently working at it.

 

The 'B' note sounding might not necessarily be the pad for the actual note. I had a problem with a note sounding constantly which turned out to be air leaking into that reed chamber due to the top of the chamber wall not meeting the underside of the action board tightly. I cut a piece of replacement chamois leather and glued it over the existing piece on top of the bellows wall and it works perfectly now.

 

 

By the way, did you try swopping the 'pinging' reed around with another of the same note to see if the problem still happens? At least that would eliminate the reed catching its frame as a possible cause....

[Dana Johnson]

Hi Richard,

 

It's disappointing to see you didn't get any help here. I was keeping an eye on your thread to find out how it resolves, and when you do get it sorted please post the results.

 

I really thought you had sourced the cause of the problem when you repaired the crack.

 

I've done a fair bit of restoring on two Lachenal Anglos ( you'll see posts by me in various forums here ) and have managed to fix a lot of problems thanks to help from people here, the concertina manual or just persistently working at it.

 

The 'B' note sounding might not necessarily be the pad for the actual note. I had a problem with a note sounding constantly which turned out to be air leaking into that reed chamber due to the top of the chamber wall not meeting the underside of the action board tightly. I cut a piece of replacement chamois leather and glued it over the existing piece on top of the bellows wall and it works perfectly now.

 

 

By the way, did you try swopping the 'pinging' reed around with another of the same note to see if the problem still happens? At least that would eliminate the reed catching its frame as a possible cause....

Perhaps he hasn't gotten any help because he has us stumped. It might be something one of us could identify if we were hearing it ourselves given the difficulty of using words to describe sounds. Outside of the noises a reed makes hitting things. The only other sources I know are things like a mispositioned spring that stick/ slips along the lever, or lever arm that needs to slide through a pivot sticking then letting go, as extremely unlikely as it might be, it at least it would be associates with the note being played in a sequence and might be missed if the note were played alone. As needed as it may have been, I wouldn't have expected a crack or leak repair to resolve a metallic ping issue. Are all the frames snug in their slots? a different reed may be shaken as the reed pan vibrates, especially something like the C on the press side of the pan, and that could easily have a metallic component to it. Sympathetic vibrations can be set up in other reeds as well that are minor but it is possible that a different reed not even being played is the one out of alignment.

I doubt if any of this will help. Just grasping at straws and hoping someone else had better ideas.

Dana

[david robertson]

I had a similar problem on an Edeophone restoration recently, and in this case it was caused by several of the ribs which the reed chambers starting to come unglued at their outer ends. I have no idea why this should cause a tinkling sound, but on a couple of big reeds, it did. It may not explain your problem, of course, but it's worth checking to see that the ribs are firmly attached. If not, apply a little PVA with a toothpick, bridge several ribs with a spare piece of wood, and clamp to the reedpan.

[david robertson]

I had a similar problem on an Edeophone restoration recently, and in this case it was caused by several of the ribs which divide the reed chambers starting to come unglued at their outer ends. I have no idea why this should cause a tinkling sound, but on a couple of big reeds, it did. It may not explain your problem, of course, but it's worth checking to see that the ribs are firmly attached. If not, apply a little PVA with a toothpick, bridge several ribs with a spare piece of wood, and clamp to the reedpan.

[frogspawn]

Many thanks to varney, Dana and David for your suggestions. The initial lack of response made me wonder if people thought I was imagining it all!

 

Anyway, I sent the 'tina to Mike Acott for an overhaul. There were a number of issues which needed attention, but I found out earlier today that it appears that the main problem I described was simply worn/compressed pads under the buttons. These were causing the levers to rise further than they should and, given the tight tollerances, to 'clack' against the inside of the ebony ends. What I could hear was this 'clack' and, I assume, some resulting resonance.

 

In hindsight, what I should have done was to have pressed the buttons smartly while not squeezing the bellows. Then the fault might have been more obvious.

 

In future I should also probably try to be less 'heavy-fingered'.

 

Richard