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Should I buy an English?


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go with the english! it sounds like it would be a perfect fit. good luck!

Good luck indeed, but make sure you try it first before you part with your cash! And, if you can, try an anglo (or two) first. There's nothing like making a decision informed by your own experience.

Don't neglect to try a duet, if you get the opportunity.

English is my main squeeze, and I think it's fine for any kind music, most certainly including Scottish. But as others have noted, that's true of any of the kinds of concrtina, yet some people are more comfortable with one type of concertina than with another. Certainly true for me; though I also play some on the anglo and Crane duet, and even a little on other duets, the English has always been the instrurment I find most comfortable.

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And I will add my vote to the "try all three types" camp. It is more important to buy one you can get your head around than to buy one because lots of people use them for the style of music you want to play. For many people it really is down to how your brain is wired up. Me included. I struggled with an English, but felt (almost) immediately at home with a Crane duet.

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Don't neglect to try a duet, if you get the opportunity.

 

Yep. Put me down as a +1 on that too. The only problem with duets is that they and their players are harder to find. But if the chance comes your way grab it with both hands. I've heard sone lovely duet playing over the years and I expect the forthcoming Duet International CDs to provide more evidence of the capability of duets for good music in many genres.

 

Chris

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try all three systems and then try all systems of duet Crane, MacCann, Hayden.

 

And you have the three to offer for trial? Gee, that's nice.

How about trying all the makers in addition? Brass reeds vs. steel reeds? Wood end vs. Steel end? Brass shoes vs. Dural?

The whole thread is very strange. If I would ask that question, I'd be derailed by now.

Whoever gives this sort of advise, be also advised to put things in perspective.

Anglo is common, English is common. Duet must be big to be fully duet, so it's expensive and rare. Tutors for Anglo and English systems exist and easy to get. For Duets - is more problematic. For Duet, left-right balance is very important, good reeds are a must, otherwise you'll lose lots of air on the left side, is it not? So again, English is cheaper and more readily available. Whether it fits Scottish music is up to the player. So far it seemed like it didn't, so it was not used. You'll be the first, I guess.

 

If you are talented artist and musician, for which chances are few, whatever you do with the instrument - is legit and it will fit any style of music you touch. If you are not that talented, you better pick up "legit" instrument for the style or just amuse yourself in respectable solitude.

As for buying, buy from few known dealers, it's more expensive, but you'll be taken care of. In case it's not what you want, you can almost always upgrade. Make a deal with them though, not all will allow you to just swap your English for another Anglo or Duet. May be you'll have to buy more expensive every time you change your mind. The point is, you probably will be allowed to exchange in few weeks, but how much can you progress in few weeks to fully know it's not you, but the instrument's system? You'll need at least a year. Make a deal with the seller and buy from those who agree (if you have any luck at all).

Boy, that's a long rant.unsure.gif

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English is cheaper and more readily available. Whether it fits Scottish music is up to the player. So far it seemed like it didn't, so it was not used.

If the Englih concertina "is cheaper" right now, I assume it's because of current demand by Irish TDM players. Certainly the EC is more costly to build than a comparable Anglo, which originally was the cheapest concertina.

 

In any case, the EC is a very good fit with Scottish music, as has been confirmed repeatedly in this thread. And being fully chromatic, the EC is more versatile than the Anglo if you want to explore other music genres.

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try all three systems and then try all systems of duet Crane, MacCann, Hayden.

 

And you have the three to offer for trial? Gee, that's nice.

How about trying all the makers in addition? Brass reeds vs. steel reeds? Wood end vs. Steel end? Brass shoes vs. Dural?

The whole thread is very strange. If I would ask that question, I'd be derailed by now.

Whoever gives this sort of advise, be also advised to put things in perspective.

Anglo is common, English is common. Duet must be big to be fully duet, so it's expensive and rare. Tutors for Anglo and English systems exist and easy to get. For Duets - is more problematic. For Duet, left-right balance is very important, good reeds are a must, otherwise you'll lose lots of air on the left side, is it not? So again, English is cheaper and more readily available. Whether it fits Scottish music is up to the player. So far it seemed like it didn't, so it was not used. You'll be the first, I guess.

 

If you are talented artist and musician, for which chances are few, whatever you do with the instrument - is legit and it will fit any style of music you touch. If you are not that talented, you better pick up "legit" instrument for the style or just amuse yourself in respectable solitude.

As for buying, buy from few known dealers, it's more expensive, but you'll be taken care of. In case it's not what you want, you can almost always upgrade. Make a deal with them though, not all will allow you to just swap your English for another Anglo or Duet. May be you'll have to buy more expensive every time you change your mind. The point is, you probably will be allowed to exchange in few weeks, but how much can you progress in few weeks to fully know it's not you, but the instrument's system? You'll need at least a year. Make a deal with the seller and buy from those who agree (if you have any luck at all).

Boy, that's a long rant.unsure.gif

 

 

He's right; it's all very well to say 'Try everything', but all you'll see a lot of is English and Anglos. They are available as cheap, respected, starter models (the Rochelle and the Jackie) and a good pool of decent antique instruments for when you graduate.

 

You don't need a duet, from what you say, it's more complexity than you will use.

 

I DON'T agree with the 'Copy what the rest do' comment though; decent players don't seem to be bounded by 'You can do THIS with an English, but THAT with an Anglo' rules. Please note I wrote 'decent' and not 'exceptional'. Get what makes sense to you, not what others say you must have.

 

The other point that hasn't been mentioned is that Anglos are much more expensive than Englishes, yet the really sensitive instruments (Wheatstone Aeolas and Lachenal Edeophones with their 'long scale' reeds) are only easily available in English system, so, when you get to upgrade, you can buy better English system instruments for much less money.

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He's right; it's all very well to say 'Try everything', but all you'll see a lot of is English and Anglos. They are available as cheap, respected, starter models (the Rochelle and the Jackie) and a good pool of decent antique instruments for when you graduate.

 

One can get Rochelle to try for few months, then use it as trade-in (with a loss) and get Jackie. Then decide. It seems to be the only option now, if the money is an issue. CC's Duet is too small to fully appreciate it, I think. But the key words are " I'd like to explore the world of music". Then it's English.

If the money is dust, use your personal jet to fly to UK (or if you are in UK, then fly across the Globe back to it) and visit the sellers, buy all their stock and try as much as you can. Then sell the rest back to sellers at 1/10th of a price and make everyone happy.

 

 

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try all three systems and then try all systems of duet Crane, MacCann, Hayden.

And you have the three to offer for trial? Gee, that's nice.

Whether they're all available for Simon to try out (the duration will more likely be a few minutes than a few months) may depend on where he lives (if he's told us, I missed it). Unless he lives near Billy B., it doesn't much matter what Billy has.

 

If he lives near me, he can try most of the above-mentioned systems; others have done so. Or if he lives near enogh to the Button Box (USA) or to the Music Room or Chris Algar (England), or near one of the gatherings (USA, UK, Sweden, Germany. maybe others). But I think most of us who have suggested that he try different kinds have included some form of the caveat that he try as many kinds as he is able to. If he's inconveniently situated, that might be none, but we hope not.

 

Duet must be big to be fully duet....

"Fully duet"? What in the name of Chaos does
that
mean?

Actually, I suspect that you're implying that the only worthwhile way to use a duet is with heavily chorded arrangements. Some (many?) people do get duets because that's the way they want to play, but other styles are possible. In particular, I think small duets should be excellent for playing mostly melody with only sparse chords and harmony, just like many Irish do with the anglo. Or one can use it to play chordal accompaniments for singing, using both hands for the chords and leaving the melody to the voice alone. A good imagination can do fine things with a "limited" instrument, even though they probably won't be the same things that someone with a larger duet would do.

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Simon (hopefully u are still reading this!) do take up some of the many kind offers to have a try on a box (BUT you did not tell us in which country, town you are) but beware just buying from anyone on ebay. Go see the just-posted-threat under buy and sell about Bay Watch e-spy Berlin etc.

 

...as well as reading carefully Panjandrum Paul Schwarz's warnings at the top of buy and sell.

 

Folk here know the reputable, regular dealers and repairers who also sell on ebay and can tell you those and u can watch what comes up from them.

 

:)

Edited by Kautilya
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Unless he lives near Billy B., it doesn't much matter what Billy has.

There's another interesting question. What does the Fat Owl of the Remove play and where does he play it?

 

Chris

I've been resisting the temptation to reply 'Yaroo you fat owl!' to one of Mr Bunter's posts in case he takes it the wrong way.

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Actually, I suspect that you're implying that the only worthwhile way to use a duet is with heavily chorded arrangements.

 

 

Not really. I had small Crane and it was very frustrating.

It wasn't very tight and didn't have enough air. It looks like small duets are not of the best quality, so here goes the first one.

Another one is very small range. Don't forget the overlap, so of 3 octaves worth of buttons you only get 2 or 1.5 octaves. Often you need to use left side for melody, so there goes your duetness. Small Duet is very easy to play melody with, but it will not show a newcomer any usefulness of Duet system vs. English. Etc. But all this is useless anyways. Few minutes of trying violin will not let me know anything about the brand or whether I like Viola better.

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I think m3838 has a valid point. A few minutes tootling on a totally strange instrument is unlikely to give anyone a realistic idea of whether or not they will be able to play it. Any instrument feels strange and difficult the first time you pick it up, it takes time to become accustomed to it.

 

Rather than simply trying out instruments in a shop, my suggestion would be to try to meet with different players who can not only explain how their system works but can demonstrate how it is played and the sort of sounds it produces. If they play Scottish music, so much the better in this case.

 

Alternatively, listening to some recordings would also give an idea of the possibilities of each instrument - Anglo International and English International would be a good start.

 

I've found that whenever I've been attracted to learn a new instrument it's because I've heard someone play it and liked that sound. It follows that you should then get the same type of instrument as them.

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