Respecting other instruments

[LDT]

Respecting other instruments

 

Just something I was pondering the other day. When you play with other instruments do work within their limitations or do you play what's easy for you and have them keep up with you? Or is it a bit of both.

how do you know the limitations of other instruments without knowing how to play them...or maybe is that why so many folk musicians seem to play so many different instruments?

Because I always worry if I play with others that I pick tunes everyone can play.

 

Discuss....

 

FYI I'm cross-posting this on melodeon.net too, to maximise responses.

Edited December 22, 2009 by LDT

[Chris Timson]

Because I always worry if I play with others that I pick tunes everyone can play.

From that last sentence I assume you are talking from a session perspective. I rarely find this an issue because I do not consider it a question of adjusting the music to the instrument but of learning to play the music you want in the style of your chosen session(s) on your chosen instrument.

 

Keys, perhaps, deserve a more detailed discussion. After a relatively short time you get the feel of how the popular keys (G,D and the relative minors) feel on your instrument. Once you got that then it becomes easy if you're choosing a key for a tune of your composition or some other tune that's not well known to choose a key that works for most people. If, on the other hand, you choose a key that's not the normal one for a well known tune the be prepared for some puzzled faces and a bit of gentle joshing afterwards. Stand your ground if you think it's worth while ...

 

If, on the other hand, you're talking about playing in an ensemble of some kind then that's quite a different kettle of aquatic beasties. There you will probably end up in quite detailed discussions about how to capitalise on the advantages and work around the disadvanges of each instrument in the group. That's fun, and I can't recommend it too highly.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[Will Fly]

It probably makes sense at sessions to play tunes in the keys that they're known in at that particular venue or locality. The problem arises, of course, if you don't happen to know the score (pun intended) in a strange venue. A casual enquiry before starting up a tune might be worthwhile. To be honest, most of the sessions with a preponderance of squeezers tend to be in G, D and C. Down here in Sussex, for example, the customary key for playing the Cape Breton strathspey "The Sweetness Of Mary" is D. Actually it was written in A, which is a key much preferred by Scottish and Nova Scotia/Cape Breton fiddlers. I prefer it in A (on mandolin and fiddle), but I'd get no participants down here if I played it in the written key - so you either stick out for what you like or give in and follow the crowd...

[LDT]

Because I always worry if I play with others that I pick tunes everyone can play.

 

 

If, on the other hand, you're talking about playing in an ensemble of some kind then that's quite a different kettle of aquatic beasties. There you will probably end up in quite detailed discussions about how to capitalise on the advantages and work around the disadvanges of each instrument in the group. That's fun, and I can't recommend it too highly.

 

 

The situation is a small group of people who let me play one tune at a barn dance, and I've finally managed to pursuade them to do a 'practice' with me. Got asked if I had some tunes I wanted to play....and I'm worried what to choose (I think they all read music). My friend (Violin) says she's picked out some tunes that were played in the titanic film. Having never seen the film I don't know what to expect.

[yankeeclipper]

Any time you join an unfamiliar session, listening is at least as important as playing. It is their session, and you are a guest. Get a sense of what they like to play, and consider what they might enjoy from your own repertoire. Some may have instruments that play best in certain keys (i.e., Anglo concertina, button accordeon, harmonica, recorder, whistle); staying within their limitations lets them join in when it's your turn. Be a good guest, and you'll be welcome to come again.

[spindizzy]

..Down here in Sussex, for example, the customary key for playing the Cape Breton strathspey "The Sweetness Of Mary" is D. Actually it was written in A, which is a key much preferred by Scottish and Nova Scotia/Cape Breton fiddlers. I prefer it in A (on mandolin and fiddle), but I'd get no participants down here if I played it in the written key - so you either stick out for what you like or give in and follow the crowd...

 

Thanks for for reminding me of that tune, it's played regularly at one local session and I didn't know it's history at all ... let alone that it was a strathspey (it's played very slow and swingy .. and in G)

 

Chris

[Steve Mansfield]

..Down here in Sussex, for example, the customary key for playing the Cape Breton strathspey "The Sweetness Of Mary" is D. Actually it was written in A, which is a key much preferred by Scottish and Nova Scotia/Cape Breton fiddlers. I prefer it in A (on mandolin and fiddle), but I'd get no participants down here if I played it in the written key - so you either stick out for what you like or give in and follow the crowd...

 

Thanks for for reminding me of that tune, it's played regularly at one local session and I didn't know it's history at all ... let alone that it was a strathspey (it's played very slow and swingy .. and in G)

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

I believe Linda picked up 'Sweetness Of Mary' from Eliza Carthy, acquired Eliza's style of playing it but transposed it for the melodeon, and it embedded itself in the Mobberley session repertoire. It's originally by Joan MacDonald Boes, and presumably, unlike the Mobberley version, at some point in the past had a regular and predictable pattern of As and Bs!

 

Not a lot I can add to the answers to LDT's original question, apart from a general nod of agreement all round ...

[Anglo-Irishman]

Respecting other instruments

 

Just something I was pondering the other day. When you play with other instruments do work within their limitations or do you play what's easy for you and have them keep up with you? Or is it a bit of both.

how do you know the limitations of other instruments without knowing how to play them...or maybe is that why so many folk musicians seem to play so many different instruments?

Because I always worry if I play with others that I pick tunes everyone can play.

 

Discuss....

 

 

Yes, Miss!

My short answer is that you have to find a common denominator.

 

Classical music lives from the symbiosis of string, woodwind, brass and keyboard instruments. Their differences are utilised to produce very varied tone colourings. Their common denominator is that all classical orchestra players can play in any key the composer thinks fit, and that the orchestra has more of the quieter instruments and fewer of the loud ones, so the sound is balanced.

 

In the musical culture that we concertinists usually get involved with, it's different. Broadly speaking, it's folk music, which is by its nature amateur music, and amateurs can't practise 8 hours a day, so of necessity shortcuts are taken to make things simpler. With "classical" chromatic instruments like the guitar and the violin, which folk musicians also use, this means playing exclusively in the "easy" keys. These are the ones that utilise the open strings; de facto the keys with sharps in the key signature (G, D, A major for the violin and these plus E major for the guitar, plus C major for both). The keyless flute in D, which can also play G quite well, cashed in on this G/D centricity of Irish fiddle music, further cementing a tonal core. Nowadays, you'll find tin whistles and low whistles predominantly in D.

Some instruments are designed deliberately for this small selection of keys, the Anglo-German concertina being one of them. The 20-button version is limited to C and G (the folk guitarist's two favourite keys; the guitar is traditional in Germany), and the 30-button extends this to F and D (if you want satisfying chords), but each additional sharp or flat in the key signature makes harmonised (and even melodic) playing progressively more difficult. My other instrument, the autoharp, is easy to play in all keys that it supports, but other keys are not available, even with difficulty. So standard autoharps are set up in the keys Bb, F, C, G, D and A major. The "common denominator" keys of fiddle, guitar, anglo, flute are all there.

This should cover most of the instruments you'll find in "folksy" circles.

 

You won't find clarinets or euphoniums, because their "easy" keys are the ones with flats in the key signature. There is no tonal common denominator with the guitars and fiddles. They have their own musical culture.

 

The bottom line is: with your 30-button Anglo, any key that you choose is probably going to be OK for your fellow amateur musicians' instruments. The rest depends on the musicians - what style of music they play best, and which specific tunes they know. You can't change your instruments, but you can educate each other, and discover new tunes together.

 

I've been playing in a group that includes guitars, 5-string banjo, mandolin, fiddle, C/G melodion, C/G Anglo, bass fiddle and whistles for decades now - a good cross-section of folk-type instruments. And we seldom have problems finding pieces in keys amenable to all.

And we don't have problems with balance, either. None of these instruments is too loud or too quiet, so we can play a gig without amplification very well.

 

We concentrate on the strengths, rather than the limitations, of our different instruments, and can play a wide variety of pieces from "Si bheag, si mhor" through "Clavelitos" to "I'm a Rover, seldom sober".

 

So it's not really an issue. Just don't suggest things in F major when there are guitarists around, or you'll get some dirty looks (been there, done that). But you wouldn't want to do that with the Anglo anyway, would you?

 

Cheers,

John

[yankeeclipper]

None of these instruments is too loud or too quiet, so we can play a gig without amplification very well.

Excellent post, John! And it raises another small issue: amplification. I've been to too many performances (not informal sessions) in small venues (mostly pubs and churches) where amplification is unnecessary. Yet so many folkies show up laden with speakers, amps and sound boards that can shake the walls! When Battlefield Band played in our village hall years ago, several of us had to leave at the interval to save our hearing. These days, when I have to attend these 'concerts' in certain pubs, I bring a set of Sennheiser noise-cancelling headphones. Our music - and our instruments - were designed to be played and heard without amplification - and they sound best that way. Sure, in some performance situations, amplification may be necessary. But please, please folks, don't amplify when you don't have to!

[Steve_freereeder]

Just don't suggest things in F major when there are guitarists around, or you'll get some dirty looks (been there, done that). But you wouldn't want to do that with the Anglo anyway, would you?

And why not? There's nothing wrong with playing in F major on a C/G anglo. It sits on the instrument quite nicely, and it sounds nice and mellow. I'd rather play in F than in D major if truth be told. Far more opportunities for LH harmonies in F. Just listen to the playing of Brian Peters - he often uses the key of F on his C/G anglo. John Kirkpatrick is not averse to it on his C/G either.

[Chris Timson]

Any time you join an unfamiliar session, listening is at least as important as playing.

Completely agree. Totally fundamental part of playing in any session, unfamiliar or otherwise. Listening is part of the joy os sessions, as well as a key task.

 

Chris

[hjcjones]

Just don't suggest things in F major when there are guitarists around, or you'll get some dirty looks (been there, done that). But you wouldn't want to do that with the Anglo anyway, would you?

And why not? There's nothing wrong with playing in F major on a C/G anglo. It sits on the instrument quite nicely, and it sounds nice and mellow. I'd rather play in F than in D major if truth be told.

 

Me too! F is a great key on C/G Anglo. There's no reason why it should be a problem for guitarists, but if they really can't manage the three-chord trick in F then all they have to do is play in D and capo up 3 frets. The one's you'll really upset are the D/G melodeonists.