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Who are playing predominantly Irish music on EC?


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Spindizzy is Christine Jordan, based on her page at Jodrell Bank Observatory. Close to my parents house since you can see Jodrell Bank from White Nancy

 

Yes that's me.... no secret. (I keep thinking that I'll change my ID someday - just inertia really)

... we have telescope spotting competitions - apparently if you are in exactly the right place, you can even see it from Wales.

 

Chris

Edited by spindizzy
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has simon thoumire ever tried to play irish music in an irish style? i'm sure he could definitely pull it off.

 

I think that technically Simon is one of the most capable concertina players around. I am sure that he could play in a convincing Irish style if he wanted to, but the fact is that he does not want to. He is perfectly happy playing his own style, more influenced by Scottish music and .Jazz

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has simon thoumire ever tried to play irish music in an irish style? i'm sure he could definitely pull it off.

 

I think that technically Simon is one of the most capable concertina players around. I am sure that he could play in a convincing Irish style if he wanted to, but the fact is that he does not want to. He is perfectly happy playing his own style, more influenced by Scottish music and .Jazz

 

i figured that was the case. i am completely happy with his music, but i would just like to hear someone play irish music on the EC that is as technically proficient as he was, just to show people it can be done.

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has simon thoumire ever tried to play irish music in an irish style? i'm sure he could definitely pull it off.

I think that technically Simon is one of the most capable concertina players around. I am sure that he could play in a convincing Irish style if he wanted to, but the fact is that he does not want to. He is perfectly happy playing his own style, more influenced by Scottish music and .Jazz

i figured that was the case. i am completely happy with his music, but i would just like to hear someone play irish music on the EC that is as technically proficient as he was, just to show people it can be done.

But can it be done... and still stay within "the tradition"?

Much of Simon's "proficiency" embodies stylistic elements that aren't normally found among Irish anglo players. You may as well wish that Glenn Gould try to play "Irish music in an Irish style" on his piano. What, indeed, would constitute "in an Irish style"?

 

You see, David, you've set foot in your own trap: After chiding others for dragging in the debate that this thread was meant to sidestep, you've simply recast it from "Irish music on the English" to "technically proficient" and "in an Irish style" on the English.

 

But FWIW, my memory of an impromptu session in New York City 20-or-so years ago is that Simon can do a fine job of playing Irish music in a style that I and others (including some "born to the tradition") didn't judge to be "un-Irish", though I'll admit that judging the "Irishness" wasn't our focus. It was neither an "Irish fiddle" style nor an "Irish anglo" style, but it flowed with what other instruments were there, merging with their style rather than standing out.

 

Let's continue with the list:

 

Do we have David Paton (USA), yet?

 

I would definitely include Jonathan Taylor (English, in Switzerland, and not a Concertina.net member, as far as I know). Jonathan's playing received a very high compliment from Tim Collins when they met at Bielefeld.

 

I wonder how much Irish music Riggy Rackin (USA) does on his English.

 

I may as well throw my own name into the list. I don't play
mostly
Irish, but it is a substantial part of what I play. (And that's without counting accompanying Irish songs on concertina.
;)
)

 

Maybe I should try to track down the Irish concertina players I knew in NYC 35-40 years ago. The first two played English, and it was only later that I met my first Irish anglo player, Father Charlie Coen.

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I would definitely include Jonathan Taylor (English, in Switzerland, and not a Concertina.net member, as far as I know). Jonathan's playing received a very high compliment from Tim Collins when they met at Bielefeld.

A fine musician whether playing Irish, English, French or Swiss music. To hear him playing Irish music in a duo with Henrik is one of my abiding memories of the Scandinavian Squeeze In, exciting and absorbing. His playing doesn't particularly sound like an anglo, which is good in my book. To me, the expectation and demand that an EC player should try to make their instrument sound like an anglo makes as little sense as demanding that it should sound like a flute! The best players in any idiom make the EC sound as if the music they are playing was always meant for the instrument, in just the same way as the best anglo players do. It doesn't sound the same, but then it shouldn't!

 

You wouldn't expect Uillean pipes players to demand that anglo players should sound just like them, would you? Well, then!

 

Chris

 

PS Jonathan was a regular contributor to the old forum, fo those with long memories.

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I think he was a Bradfield a while back and I was very imressed by his playing of a set of reels . I liked the way e played within the scope of the EC and use dit as an instrument for his obvious feeling and sense of the music. I have heard others do the same on other instruments. Peadar Long who played on Crookfinger Jack LP in the 70s and was in a band in Yorkshire had it on sax I think.

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More names have been added to the list. Thanks again to all for their contributions and remarks!

Chris's name is revealed :), but for Australian Marc I have received two different names..... :huh:

I met Jonathan Taylor during a session on Arran Island, Scotland in October, and was impressed by his playing. Unfortunately that day I climbed Mount Goat Fell and I was very, very tired :( .

I was wondering if Sandy Winters from Chicago should be included in this list. I received a recording of him with some very interesting personal compositions (with guitar and banjo playing dubbed, he is equally a very good guitar/banjo player), at the end he plays some Irish reels. He is a member and I will contact him.

 

English System Concertina Players Who Play Irish Music

 

Marc Anderson or Markus Dow (Australia)

Dirk de Bleser (Belgium)

Robin Beech (Canada)

Tom Ryan (Canada)

Jim Lucas (Denmark) [American or English?]

Christine Jordan (England)

John Leavey (England)

Simon Skelton (England)

Jean Louis Auneaud (France)

Hermann Strack (France) - [German/French/Uruguayan]

Geoff Wooff (France) - [English]

Fernando Durbán Galnares (Ireland) - [spanish]

Dick Miles (Ireland) - [English]

Henrik Müller (Sweden) - [Danish]

Dick Abrams (USA)

Ed Delaney (USA)

Rick Epping (USA?)

Mike ''Fidlersgreen'' (USA)

Matt Heumann (USA)

Tim Jennings (USA)

Denise Martin (USA)

David Paton (USA)

Larry Stout (USA)

Ken Sweeney (USA)

Randal Wolfe (USA)

Jonathan Taylor (Switzerland) [English]

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has simon thoumire ever tried to play irish music in an irish style? i'm sure he could definitely pull it off.

I think that technically Simon is one of the most capable concertina players around. I am sure that he could play in a convincing Irish style if he wanted to, but the fact is that he does not want to. He is perfectly happy playing his own style, more influenced by Scottish music and .Jazz

i figured that was the case. i am completely happy with his music, but i would just like to hear someone play irish music on the EC that is as technically proficient as he was, just to show people it can be done.

But can it be done... and still stay within "the tradition"?

Much of Simon's "proficiency" embodies stylistic elements that aren't normally found among Irish anglo players. You may as well wish that Glenn Gould try to play "Irish music in an Irish style" on his piano. What, indeed, would constitute "in an Irish style"?

 

You see, David, you've set foot in your own trap: After chiding others for dragging in the debate that this thread was meant to sidestep, you've simply recast it from "Irish music on the English" to "technically proficient" and "in an Irish style" on the English.

 

But FWIW, my memory of an impromptu session in New York City 20-or-so years ago is that Simon can do a fine job of playing Irish music in a style that I and others (including some "born to the tradition") didn't judge to be "un-Irish", though I'll admit that judging the "Irishness" wasn't our focus. It was neither an "Irish fiddle" style nor an "Irish anglo" style, but it flowed with what other instruments were there, merging with their style rather than standing out.

 

Let's continue with the list:

 

Do we have David Paton (USA), yet?

 

I would definitely include Jonathan Taylor (English, in Switzerland, and not a Concertina.net member, as far as I know). Jonathan's playing received a very high compliment from Tim Collins when they met at Bielefeld.

 

I wonder how much Irish music Riggy Rackin (USA) does on his English.

 

I may as well throw my own name into the list. I don't play
mostly
Irish, but it is a substantial part of what I play. (And that's without counting accompanying Irish songs on concertina.
;)
)

 

Maybe I should try to track down the Irish concertina players I knew in NYC 35-40 years ago. The first two played English, and it was only later that I met my first Irish anglo player, Father Charlie Coen.

 

well, i dont think i stepped in my own trap... the debate i was hoping to avoid was "whether or not it could be done," because as i said before, i thought that might be more suitable a debate for another thread.

 

i think that proficiency is not off topic, as i am not trying to define current players as sounding irish or not, but rather that i would like to hear simon thoumire play irish music. why? i like his music, and i like irish music. that's all. i am not about to say the english concertina makes irish music sound "not irish," but i would be willing to say that there is no one at simon's level playing irish music on the english concertina that i have heard. that's all. also, in so bringing it up, we have determined that he can play irish music--you say you have played with him. although i do not think he should belong on the list--he does not seem to play very often in public--it is still useful information, and in line with the point of the thread.

 

as far as the word style goes... there are differences in rhythm and phrasing between irish and scottish music. there are also differences in ornamentation, etc. so, to make it in an irish style, i would expect irish phrasing and rhythm, and ornamentation that is appropriate within the tradition, though it may be different than how anglo players do it. i don't think that is very ambiguous an idea.

 

besides, in line with the thread, if he played irish music but did not play it according to my idea of irish music, it would not matter--we are talking about people who play irish music, and not how well or traditionally they do.

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More names have been added to the list. Thanks again to all for their contributions and remarks!

Chris's name is revealed :), but for Australian Marc I have received two different names..... :huh:

I met Jonathan Taylor during a session on Arran Island, Scotland in October, and was impressed by his playing. Unfortunately that day I climbed Mount Goat Fell and I was very, very tired :( .

I was wondering if Sandy Winters from Chicago should be included in this list. I received a recording of him with some very interesting personal compositions (with guitar and banjo playing dubbed, he is equally a very good guitar/banjo player), at the end he plays some Irish reels. He is a member and I will contact him.

 

English System Concertina Players Who Play Irish Music

 

Marc Anderson or Markus Dow (Australia)

Dirk de Bleser (Belgium)

Robin Beech (Canada)

Tom Ryan (Canada)

Jim Lucas (Denmark) [American or English?]

Christine Jordan (England)

John Leavey (England)

Simon Skelton (England)

Jean Louis Auneaud (France)

Hermann Strack (France) - [German/French/Uruguayan]

Geoff Wooff (France) - [English]

Fernando Durbán Galnares (Ireland) - [spanish]

Dick Miles (Ireland) - [English]

Henrik Müller (Sweden) - [Danish]

Dick Abrams (USA)

Ed Delaney (USA)

Rick Epping (USA?)

Mike ''Fidlersgreen'' (USA)

Matt Heumann (USA)

Tim Jennings (USA)

Denise Martin (USA)

David Paton (USA)

Larry Stout (USA)

Ken Sweeney (USA)

Randal Wolfe (USA)

Jonathan Taylor (Switzerland) [English]

 

awesmoe list! anyone want to give me an english concertina, so i can get added to the list? vintage, wakker, suttner, or wheatstone only, ;)

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Good luck with the list Hermann. I know some folks poo poo lists, but I think they can be interesting & anyway they're usually lots of fun.

 

As for me, sorry, but I'm afraid my name can't be added as I'm kind of with David on this.

 

To explain my position, if I want to play Irish tunes, I'll use my Anglo, simply because for me, irish tunes sound so right on an Anglo.

 

On my EC I mostly play Northumbrian & Scottish music & to my ears at least, those tunes sound so much better & natural on an EC, than an Anglo.

 

However, that's not to say that in time, if enough people were to concentrate on playing Irish Music on ECs, {particularly players living in Ireland} the EC couldn't eventually come to be recognised as one of the core instruments used to produce Irish Music.

After all, when you think about it, there was a time when NO Anglos at all were used to play Irish Music.

No doubt, at first they were just tolerated & probably even scorned by most purists, but in time, they came to be accepted.

The same could happen with ECs!

 

Nothing is impossible, but for me personally, my ears tell me that, at this point in time at least, the Anglo is the right machine to produce that glorious rolling, flowing sound that Irish music is all about.

They also tell me that the EC is the right machine to produce the lovely jagged edges that Scottish Music is so often, all about.

 

I, like so many others, have found that it's really pretty easy to learn the other system, once you have become comfortable on one system.

{although I can only vouch for going from Anglo to EC}

So, my vote would go on learning the system that best suited the music you really wanted to play & if finances allowed,go for one of each! ;)

 

To qualify that though, I certainly have no problem with anyone 'pushing the envelope' on the unconventional system, it's just that to my ears, it usually sounds like they're almost trying to defy gravity ..... or something. B)

 

Anyway, I hope you'll forgive the slight deviation from topic, from this grumpy old man!. :wacko: :ph34r:

 

Cheers

Dick

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It may or may not be co-incidence that my favourite Irish tunes are the marvellous slow airs, for which I believe the English concertina is eminently suited.

 

- John Wild

 

Good point John.

I just love playing the ancient Irish Tunes, Carolan etc., on the EC & I find they really sound so much better on the EC, than the Anglo!

However, I prefer playing all the Irish dance tunes on my Anglo, so I don't qualify for this list.

Cheers

Dick

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Jonathan Taylor (Switzerland) [English]

[nitpick] Jonathan moved to Switzerland at age 11 and is now a Swiss citizen, so maybe Anglo/Swiss would be better [/nitpick]. Otherwise, very interesting list.

Sorry, Chris.

I think I'm responsible for the "nit".

Though Jonathan told me that he was originally English, I don't recall him mentioning (to me) when he made the move, and I presumed it was as an adult. Besides, in the US (where I originated) naturalized citizens are still commonly referred to by their country of origin (e.g., "Italian, but an American citizen"), though that seems not to be the case generally in Europe (e.g., "Danish, though I was born and raised in Germany").

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It may or may not be co-incidence that my favourite Irish tunes are the marvellous slow airs, for which I believe the English concertina is eminently suited.

 

- John Wild

 

Good point John.

I just love playing the ancient Irish Tunes, Carolan etc., on the EC & I find they really sound so much better on the EC, than the Anglo!

However, I prefer playing all the Irish dance tunes on my Anglo, so I don't qualify for this list.

Cheers

Dick

 

It seems to me that whenever anyone posts about "ITM", or even "Irish music" on this forum, the assumption seems to be that they're talking about Irish dance music - sets mostly consisting of jigs, reels and hornpipes. Folks here even dismiss the EC as "not sounding Irish" because it lacks the sound they've come to associate with Irish dance music. But there is more to "Irish music" than dance sets - slow airs, harp, uilleann pipes, etc. Rather than slap a generic "Irish Traditional Music" on what is mostly focused on dance music, wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to the dance sets as "Irish Traditional Dance Music," or "Irish TDM"?

Edited by yankeeclipper
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Rather than slap a generic "Irish Traditional Music" on what is mostly focused on dance music, wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to the dance sets as "Irish Traditional Dance Music," or "Irish TDM"?

How would you pronounce that? ... "Irish TeDiuM"?

Not my opinion of the music, mind you; just my love of puns. ;)

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Rather than slap a generic "Irish Traditional Music" on what is mostly focused on dance music, wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to the dance sets as "Irish Traditional Dance Music," or "Irish TDM"?

How would you pronounce that? ... "Irish TeDiuM"?

Not my opinion of the music, mind you; just my love of puns. ;)

No pun, Jim - just a bit of onomatopoeia. ;)

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More names have been added to the list.

Useful thread!

 

Could I suggest that you edit your initial posting to include the updated list, as it will avoid the need to go hunting through the various postings.

 

Regards,

Peter. :)

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