Who are playing predominantly Irish music on EC?

[chiton1]

After so many discussions if Irish music CAN be played on English Concertina, I would be interested to know who are predomintly playing Irish music (ITM or however you call it) on their EC? And I think it would also be interesting to know how many people use their EC to play Irish music. Sometimes I have the impression that Anglo players regard us a rare breed of queer people on a useless and futile quest (why not play Anglo is a question I have often been asked by Anglo players).

Of course I came across a few Irish playing ECs in Concertina.net, but there are probably more I do not know of.

I would also be curious to know were these people are based, as probably most of them live outside Ireland.

So I have three easy questions: 1) do you play predominantly (lets say at least half of your repertoire) Irish Music on your EC? (if so, please give your name) 2) in which country do you live? 3) do you know of others who would fit this category?

 

This will result in a list like the one Dick made for Scottish EC players. I will sign in first - hope others will follow.

I have edited this first post so that all further updates can be seen here:

 

English System Concertina Players Who Play Irish Music

 

Marc Anderson or Markus Dow (Australia)

Dirk De Bleser (Belgium)

Robin Beech (Canada)

Tom Ryan (Canada)

Jim Lucas (Denmark) [American]

Val ''Flying Toads'' (England)

Christine Jordan (England)

John Leavey (England)

Simon Skelton (England)

Jean Louis Auneaud (France)

Eric Hardy (France)

Hermann Strack (France) - [German/French/Uruguayan]

Geoff Wooff (France) - [English]

Fernando Durbán Galnares (Ireland) - [spanish]

Dick Miles (Ireland) - [English]

Henrik Müller (Sweden) - [Danish]

Dick Abrams (USA)

Eric Barker (USA)

Joel Bernstein (USA)

Ed Delaney (USA)

Rick Epping (USA?)

Mike ''Fidlersgreen'' (USA)

Matt Heumann (USA)

Tim Jennings (USA)

Denise Martin (USA)

Jim Norman (USA)

David Paton (USA)

Larry Stout (USA)

Ken Sweeney (USA)

Sandy Winters (USA)

Randal Wolfe (USA)

Jonathan Taylor (Switzerland) [Anglo-Swiss]

Edited December 23, 2009 by chiton1

[Guest Peter Laban]

Geoff Wooff (France)

[Larry Stout]

I'm not sure if I count-- about 1/3 of the music I play at home is Irish, but I've been playing for several years in our weekly Irish session and in monthly English country dances, so I play Irish music in public somewhat more often that the other styles. I live in central Illinois, USA. There is an old and active Irish music culture in Chicago (which is, after all, where O'Neil did his collecting), in Champaign, and in Madison, WI. When I've visited sessions there no one complained that I play an EC rather than an anglo. I also play fiddle.

[David Levine]

I don't want to appear dismissive, but I really don't feel that EC players are relevant in a discussion of Irish music. My bias is admittedly and nearly exclusively pure drop Irish traditional. I never expect to learn much about concertina playing from an EC player. The music always sounds a bit flat to me, without expression or lift. The notes are there, but not the bounce. I enjoyed playing with Jeff Wooff because it was Jeff, but I never felt that his playing was particularly inspired. I have never heard an EC player who did inspire me, but I am inspired by nearly all the current crop, old and young, of Anglo players that I hear all the time.

 

I don't doubt that there are some lovely EC players out there, who play ITM very well. But the EC in relation to ITM strikes me as like the silver flute or the piano accordion. There have been some great players on the silver flute and the piano accordion (and the hammer dulcimer), but I don't think of them as being at the center of the tradition. They are more like exceptionally gifted, very accomplished odd-balls, Joanie Madden and Noel Rice, Alan Kelly and Karen Tweed included. I don't know of any musicians of that level of accomplishment who play Traditional Irish on the EC. Are there any?

 

I switched from the English concertina to the Anglo twenty years ago. I did this so I could play more like the concertina players I admired so much. It can be done. I suppose the question is, why don't people make the switch? Does it have to do with not wanting to make a commitment to playing Irish music on the level that is required to get anywhere with such a tricky instrument? The desire to play other kinds of music? The ability to play easily in more difficult keys? If a person doesn't want to make the commitment to play ITM seriously, then how seriously would you expect to be taken by somebody who has made that commitment and who has serious aspirations of becoming an accomplished player?

 

We've skirted around this issue before. I'm not flaming anybody and I hope I don't get flamed here. But it does seem to me that if you play ITM on an English concertina then you're a casual player of the music and should accept yourself as such.

[yankeeclipper]

I switched from the English concertina to the Anglo twenty years ago. I did this so I could play more like the concertina players I admired so much. It can be done. I suppose the question is, why don't people make the switch? Does it have to do with not wanting to make a commitment to playing Irish music on the level that is required to get anywhere with such a tricky instrument?

 

In my case, it is because while the Anglo is beautifully suited to Irish dance and what is called ITM, it is not as well suited to Irish slow airs as the English concertina, nor as versatile in playing other genres (classical, Scottish, klezmer, etc.), nor as adaptable to other fully chromatic instruments. If ITM is mostly what you do, the Anglo is just the thing for you, but it is a much more limited instrument than the English concertina.

[John Wild]

 

If a person doesn't want to make the commitment to play ITM seriously, then how seriously would you expect to be taken by somebody who has made that commitment and who has serious aspirations of becoming an accomplished player?

We've skirted around this issue before. I'm not flaming anybody and I hope I don't get flamed here. But it does seem to me that if you play ITM on an English concertina then you're a casual player of the music and should accept yourself as such.

 

As an English player, I do not want to make an absolute commitment to playing Irish music, simply because that would exclude so much else. I have recently acquired a book of Scandinavian tunes and will pick a few favourites from that to join my favourite Shetland, Northumbrian, Welsh AND Irish tunes among others, in the overall range of tunes that I play. It may or may not be co-incidence that my favourite Irish tunes are the marvellous slow airs, for which I believe the English concertina is eminently suited.

 

- John Wild

[david_boveri]

I don't want to appear dismissive, but I really don't feel that EC players are relevant in a discussion of Irish music. My bias is admittedly and nearly exclusively pure drop Irish traditional. I never expect to learn much about concertina playing from an EC player. The music always sounds a bit flat to me, without expression or lift. The notes are there, but not the bounce. I enjoyed playing with Jeff Wooff because it was Jeff, but I never felt that his playing was particularly inspired. I have never heard an EC player who did inspire me, but I am inspired by nearly all the current crop, old and young, of Anglo players that I hear all the time.

 

I don't doubt that there are some lovely EC players out there, who play ITM very well. But the EC in relation to ITM strikes me as like the silver flute or the piano accordion. There have been some great players on the silver flute and the piano accordion (and the hammer dulcimer), but I don't think of them as being at the center of the tradition. They are more like exceptionally gifted, very accomplished odd-balls, Joanie Madden and Noel Rice, Alan Kelly and Karen Tweed included. I don't know of any musicians of that level of accomplishment who play Traditional Irish on the EC. Are there any?

 

I switched from the English concertina to the Anglo twenty years ago. I did this so I could play more like the concertina players I admired so much. It can be done. I suppose the question is, why don't people make the switch? Does it have to do with not wanting to make a commitment to playing Irish music on the level that is required to get anywhere with such a tricky instrument? The desire to play other kinds of music? The ability to play easily in more difficult keys? If a person doesn't want to make the commitment to play ITM seriously, then how seriously would you expect to be taken by somebody who has made that commitment and who has serious aspirations of becoming an accomplished player?

 

We've skirted around this issue before. I'm not flaming anybody and I hope I don't get flamed here. But it does seem to me that if you play ITM on an English concertina then you're a casual player of the music and should accept yourself as such.

 

two things dave:

 

1.) they were asking who plays the english concertina in irish music, and not SHOULD you or CAN you

2.) people can choose non-traditional instruments and be very committed. my uncle plays the silver flute (aka boehm flute) in irish music (if you go to http://burkewhistles.com/ , his sound clip loads--he is the whistle/flute/pipes player for the kells). he does not do so because he is not committed--he cannot play classical music, and never has intended to. when he was learning irish music as a child, that was the only type of high quality flute that was easily available in the united states; he sold his german 8-key because it was simply just holding him back. if he was learning today, he probably would have just upgraded his german 8-key into a nice olwell, or even a higher-quality antique (which seem to have come out of the woodwork with the advent of the internet, pun intended). the same goes for joanie mitchell--she plays boehm because she grew up doing so. i actually play boehm because--guess what--i grew up playing it. by the time i knew another type of flute existed (ironic, as i grew up listening to irish music), it was too late--the boehm flute is home for me. sure i can play the wooden flute, and i can play it as well (or as poorly) as my silver flute, but it just doesn't feel like home. i only play the wooden flute for fun, or convenience--i dont mind taking my delrin boosey copy to sessions, as i dont have to clean it out when i'm done. so, this is all said to insinuate that context and situation are more important than commitment. it has taken me more commitment and hard work to get a boehm flute to sound irish than a wooden flute, and likewise a committed EC player would have to be more committed than a similar-skilled anglo player to make their irish music sound authentic.

 

so, please... let's not spend any more time in this thread talking about IF you can play the EC in irish music, but rather WHO does. it is a worthwhile discussion, for sure, but i think it should be in another thread.

[Frank Edgley]

Matt Heumann is a very skilled English Concertina player. While he is now usually found playing his own compositions, he spent years playing with Uillean piper Al Purcell, in the Detroit area. He actually went the other way, going from anglo to English, but I think the decision was heavily influenced by the availability of a decent instrument 30 years ago.

[catty]

I'm in the process of switching from anglo to EC.

 

For me, concertina is about my 7th or 8th instrument -- so I'm not pursuing seriously. When I travel for leisure I carry a double case with fiddle and mandolin, and another double case with EC and AC. On concertina, I play mostly jigs and reels, but I also enjoy being able to play ANYTHING with EC including Satie, Rebikov, Bach. Someday, I expect to leave the anglo at home.

 

I play guitars, banjos, conrabass, fiddle, mandos and drums in various styles in various bands. For me, EC is one of the most elegant instruments.

Edited December 6, 2009 by catty

[ceemonster]

there's a cat using a forum moniker of dow in australia who plays itm on an ec and he sounds great. there were clips around somewhere at one point but i don't know where they were or whether they're still about....if you're asking because you're looking to contact someone who plays itm on ec, you could probly email him through www.thesession.org.

 

also, rick epping plays itm on EC, sometimes while strapped into a harmonica. he lives in ireland and gigs pretty much perpetually with top-class irish players such as mick kinsella....he is probably emailable as well thru a web site or something....

Edited December 6, 2009 by ceemonster

[fernando]

Fernando, spaniard living in Galway, Ireland

 

I play english concertina, irish and spanish music.

 

I'm taking concertina lessons with Noel Hill, and I am the only one with the english system!

 

And I'm not going to change because since I saw Simon Thoumire playing I will always have hope.

 

I love to play in all the keys I can, even the really uncommon ones, english concertina is well suited for that.

 

If there are more english concertinas in Ireland I want to meet them! (Rick Epping and Mick Kinsella are a bit too high level for me)

Edited December 7, 2009 by fernando

[Guest Peter Laban]

In fairness, Mick & Rick only play accompaniment for their harmonicas on their concertinas.

[Henrik Müller]

I do, to 99,9%

 

My instrument isn't a normal EC.

 

 

I have no built-in, camouflaged ideas like "You can do it just as well on an EC" - it was pure coincidence

and a dose of Northumbrian music that did it. Should I choose today, it would be Anglo.

 

Let's see...

 

Henrik Müller, Danish emigrant in Sweden -

 

 

 

/Henrik

Edited December 7, 2009 by Henrik Müller

[Lester Bailey]

Probably been done to death, but why is an Anglo a "Traditional" instrument for Irish music when most of it was written long before the instrument was invented

[Guest Peter Laban]

When, how or what was 'written' is irrelevant and so is probably calling a choice of instrument 'traditional'. What does matter is that there is a consensus of sorts among the community (of musicians) about what is the instrument of choice.

 

That said, I have never seen an eye brow raised by any traditional musician about the (appropriateness of) choice of concertina. Geoff Wooff whom I mentioned above was locally well respected as a player and while he may not have inspired David, Junior Crehan, Kitty Hayes, Michael Downes, Jackie Daly, Bobby Casey, Conor Keane, Tommy McCarthy and other local musicians were quite happy to play with him and relate to others they thought him a fine player.

 

Good musicians, as I know them, may sometimes wonder about something being unusual but they are usually the first to aknowledge that when something works, it works and they're happy to accept it.

[Chris Ghent]

I play often with an EC player ( "Dow" as mentioned by Ceemonster, unfortunately the clips he mentions are no longer there) whose commitment could not be faulted and who gives nothing away to any player I have heard other than the very best. Visiting Irish people don't shake their heads and say, "...if only he played an Anglo." They eagerly sit down and play with him. As I do whenever I can. He can play the Anglo a little, and when he does it sounds great, but no different to his EC. Like all great players, he transcends his instrument.

 

Chris

[Alan Day]

When, how or what was 'written' is irrelevant and so is probably calling a choice of instrument 'traditional'. What does matter is that there is a consensus of sorts among the community (of musicians) about what is the instrument of choice.

 

That said, I have never seen an eye brow raised by any traditional musician about the (appropriateness of) choice of concertina. Geoff Wooff whom I mentioned above was locally well respected as a player and while he may not have inspired David, Junior Crehan, Kitty Hayes, Michael Downes, Jackie Daly, Bobby Casey, Conor Keane, Tommy McCarthy and other local musicians were quite happy to play with him and relate to others they thought him a fine player.

 

Good musicians, as I know them, may sometimes wonder about something being unusual but they are usually the first to aknowledge that when something works, it works and they're happy to accept it.

Peter,Geoff is a very old friend of mine,way back when I used to help run the Black Horse Sing Around at Nuthurst in Sussex,

When doing English International I tried to trace Geoff to Australia where he emigrated and eventually caught up with him making small pipes. To find good English System players playing ITM was difficult for me as few excellent players exist or if they do I could not find them. Geoff was amongst the best players I heard ,but sadly he was a bit rusty, having not played consistently. His recordings were not quite good enough, but lovely playing. Sadly he did did not have the time to improve the recordings enough for his inclusion to the collection.We remain friends and I still respect his playing abilities and his honesty after all these years.

Al

[Guest Peter Laban]

Alan, Geoff has been a friend of mine for 25 years now, he was my neighbour in Clare before he went to France. I have seen him come back to the concertina (for use in social situations of shared music) by the end of the eighties and have spent plenty of playing situations with him, including on various occasions all the people I mentioned above and the three of us (with Jackie Daly) playing in the new Millennium.

The concertina has taken the backseat a bit I know, the Hurdy Gurdy is his choice for French social music. He makes the Uilleann Pipes by the way, and no better man to do it.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Peter Laban