Jack of all trades master of none?

[yankeeclipper]

So which is better learn lots of tunes in a just about presentable fashion or just concentrate on being really good at a handful?

 

Typical "which is better?" thread. Ultimately, the answer always comes down to "it depends on what you want."

 

 

"Odyous of olde been comparisonis, And of comparisonis engendyrd is haterede." John Lydgate, circa 1440

[Jim Besser]

So which is better learn lots of tunes in a just about presentable fashion or just concentrate on being really good at a handful?

 

Both, in my opinion.

 

Pick a handful you really want to nail, and work on them until you're super-comfortable and happy with them.

Reserve some of each practice session for trying new tunes, practicing ones that are new, or hard for you, or in different keys, tempos, etc.

 

New tunes stretch your boundaries and add to your skills; putting together an ever-expanding list of tunes you play well really hones those skills.

[polkabeast]

I start out every practice either developing a new song or working on a new cover. Then I trudge through my set of what I know and can play best. Then I finish up trying to polish what I can't play as well. Keeps the categories fresh and shifting.

[m3838]

When I started to study accordion, I asked the same question to my teacher.

His answer describes accepted teaching thought in Russia.

When you start, it is imperative to learn as many tunes as possible. Variety will give you interest and develop your technique.

As you progress, you learn fewer pieces of more complex music and take them to greater depth, as your technique progressed and abilities matured.

As I noticed, you may not benefit from learning fewer pieces anyways, because I don't see your technique been there yet. You simply don't know where to take the tune, after certain level.

To my opinion, in your case, you'll benefit from learning more tunes, hoping that as you learn them, you are introduced to bits and pieces of technique, essential to those pieces (triplets, harmony, syncopation, what not), and will be able to apply it to other tunes. Then naturally you'll select favorite tunes to develop them deeper.

I wish I had the time to play with others. Playing with others definitely will bring you further and faster.

Note that I am not an expert, only an observer.

[yankeeclipper]

An Apprentice learns a little bit about everything. A Journeyman learns more and more about less and less, until he knows everything about nothing, and becomes a Master.

[NoNaYet]

We can interject "what do you play" into this discussion. I have about 50 tunes I play from memory for myself and others, but they are not what you would play at a session I suppose.

 

I just spent many hours working out a reasonable presentation of The Carousel of Life (Howl's Moving Castle Theme) for my baritone Anglo, which sounds great, but is certainly not traditional concertina.

 

Right now my three real show pieces are La Marianne, The Song from Moulin Rouge, and the Carousel of Life. Real crowd pleasers are simple tunes; Londonderry Aire, The Minstrel Boy, and Scotland the Brave.

 

Sort of unique is a long collection of American Civil War songs, and WWI songs I play.

 

I guess my point is, you do not have to play Irish folk music to enjoy yourself or to get applause.

 

NNY

[Kurt Braun]

This is how my first teacher (not concertina) dealt with the problem.

 

Each week he would assign me some sort of etude that would stretch my technique and or experience with different keys, intervals, rhythms, articulations and or modes. It would be something that I would not be able to muddle through, but within a week of concentrated practice, I could play at a good speed with no errors (wrong notes or speed variation). That is, it built my confidence as well as my technique.

 

Next, he would assign me a short (two or three minute) piece. The idea here was begin with something that I could (technically) play with moderate difficulty (waist deep, not ankle deep and not over my head, if you get my drift). The idea was that in a week, I would play it back, not only error free, but musically and with some expression. Every week I had to make some music.

 

The trick, where he earned his money, was to choose things that would move me forward (not the same old thing) and would be something that I could actually accomplish within one week of work (challenging, but not too difficult).

 

To this day, I think I waste too much time on stuff that is either too easy or too hard.

[Jody Kruskal]

This is how my first teacher (not concertina) dealt with the problem.

 

Each week he would assign me some sort of etude that would stretch my technique and or experience with different keys, intervals, rhythms, articulations and or modes. It would be something that I would not be able to muddle through, but within a week of concentrated practice, I could play at a good speed with no errors (wrong notes or speed variation). That is, it built my confidence as well as my technique.

 

Next, he would assign me a short (two or three minute) piece. The idea here was begin with something that I could (technically) play with moderate difficulty (waist deep, not ankle deep and not over my head, if you get my drift). The idea was that in a week, I would play it back, not only error free, but musically and with some expression. Every week I had to make some music.

 

The trick, where he earned his money, was to choose things that would move me forward (not the same old thing) and would be something that I could actually accomplish within one week of work (challenging, but not too difficult).

 

To this day, I think I waste too much time on stuff that is either too easy or too hard.

 

Yes, tune selection is key to making progress as a player. The other thing is playing as close to every day as you can manage. I am offering skype lessons for Anglo players world wide who would like the direction a teacher can offer. I'm talking about harmonic style or as it is sometimes called, English style, not traditional Irish single line playing but rather a chordal approach to tunes on the Anglo.

 

As an experienced teacher, I can offer clear goals that are both achievable and challenging. One benefit of working with a teacher is that when you have a deadline, a scheduled lesson to focus your practice, then you push yourself and real progress is the result. That has been true for me in my playing. If I have a gig where I am going to play material I don't know so well, I make it a priority to do my homework and show up prepared. I have a few of these gigs coming up so it's time to figure these tunes out and get to work.

 

Email me as a PM or through the contact page of my web site if you are interested in one on one skype lessons.

[David Levine]

An Apprentice learns a little bit about everything. A Journeyman learns more and more about less and less, until he knows everything about nothing, and becomes a Master.

 

This is a great quote. Part of the Irish thing is to have lots and lots of tunes- and to be proficient in playing them. Some tunes you can play well on your own. On others you need the support of the people you're playing with. It's all an accumulation of years and years spent learning and playing. I am always working on new tunes to get them up to speed, cycling through tunes I learned years ago, and I'm always learning new tunes.

 

Is it possible that there is a definitive answer to the OP's question? I don't think so.

 

People often set up false choices, these false dichotomies, and it's not like we have to do either of them.

Edited December 5, 2009 by David Levine

[JimLucas]

An Apprentice learns a little bit about everything. A Journeyman learns more and more about less and less, until he knows everything about nothing, and becomes a Master.

This is a great quote.

It's a clever quip, and unfortunately IMO is becoming the modern standard, but it's a false representation of the classical concept of the Journeyman. The "Journeyman" in David's quote is more a description of our modern specialist "expert". A true Journeyman -- who had travelled widely practicing his trade (I believe in Denmark the standard was at least two years travelling throughout Europe) -- would not learn "more and more about less and less", but would continually learn more and more about more and more.

 

Here's another quote, not truly descriptive of all experts, but certainly reflecting an all too prevalent attitude in modern society:

An "expert" is someone with a computer (in the 1950's it was "someone with a briefcase") more than fifty miles from home.

That also expresses the attitude that a person, no matter how expert, rarely gets respect from those who know him/her personally, while the "expertise" of a stranger -- especially one displaying self confidence -- is often accepted without question.

[Fergus_fiddler]

LDT, my piece of advice:

 

Don't think about such concepts; just play. And then play again.Then, you can play, too.

 

When I first took up a fiddle I was 25 - 15 years ago - and, same as you, I was starving about learning new tunes and play them at the session, but this is a thing that you cannot force, simply give it time. Last time I made a check of the number of tunes I can play - 3 or 4 years ago, - they were around 400, then I stopped counting.

 

You will realize that by learning some tunes, specially in traditional music, there are some melodic lines or scales that repeat quite often on others. Relax, just let the thing go, and listen to the style of music you want to play whenever you can, for accustom your ear & brain to. Playing an instrument has in some way to do with gymnastics, so let your fingers learn the tunes, too.

 

I was very obsessive when begun with music, but now I realize there was no reason. Perhaps it's because irish sessions were quite competitive at that time, but thanks goodness that changed - apart from the teenagers full of hormones trying to demonstrate everyone their proficiency and speed in fiddle, pipes or flute -.

 

So, remeber: you don't have a deadline. Just enjoy the journey and challenges of any tune, and the more tunes you know, the easier would be the next ones.

 

Just some bits of my thoughs.

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

[Fergus_fiddler]

 

This is a great quote. Part of the Irish thing is to have lots and lots of tunes- and to be proficient in playing them. Some tunes you can play well on your own. On others you need the support of the people you're playing with. It's all an accumulation of years and years spent learning and playing. I am always working on new tunes to get them up to speed, cycling through tunes I learned years ago, and I'm always learning new tunes.

Great lines. I forgot to add the last post that there are tunes I've been playing since I begun with irish music & I didn't play them the same way 15 than 10 than 5 years ago than yesterday - big session -.

 

I think that, as long as the way you play a certain tune evolves with you, you're always re-learning it - not to talk, of course, about transplanting the tunes from an instrument to another -

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

[Anglo-Irishman]

So which is better learn lots of tunes in a just about presentable fashion or just concentrate on being really good at a handful?

LDT,

I think this depends on where you are with the concertina - beginner or advanced.

 

At the start, you're learning three things at once: the instrument, the tunes, and the structure of your favourite type of music. This is why it's a good thing to start with tunes that you already know, so you have one factor less to work at, and you can hear when you're doing it right or wrong.

 

What I did with my new Crane, after learning the scales and a few chords, was to work up one piece completely, finding the melody and the chords, and then working to get it presentable, with good tempo and expression. In the process, I found out when to use a full chord, and when to play a reduced chord, and so on. I chose a slow piece (Home, Sweet Home) so as not to have to worry about getting up to speed.

When I'd done this, I tried a second piece, and found that I could pick out the melody more easily, and already had some of the chords in my fingers, so I learned this tune more quickly.

 

The idea is that each tune helps you to "find your way about" on the instrument. Each tune has different intervals in the melody, is in a different key, has different chord progressions and a different rhythm. With each tune, you explore a bit more of the instrument and the musical genre. After a while, the situations in which you realise that you've done something like this before become more and more frequent. So as an intermediate player, you can work up a tune more quickly, and can learn several at once.

 

I do think that, right from the start, you should have first one, then a couple of "party pieces", so that you can demonstrate how nice the concertina sounds, and how nicely you can play it. If you have several pieces that you can sort of muddle through, identify one that seems to have potential, and work on it until it becomes a "party piece", too. I develop my "party pieces" intensively, one at a time. Once they've reached performance level, I can put them on the back-burner, and work up something else. It takes relatively little effort to refresh your memory, once you've really got a tune in proper shape.

 

For many of us (musicians and listeners alike), playing an instrument means performing for others, even if it's only friends and family. So you absolutely need these "party pieces"! (i.e. become a Jack of all trades and master of a couple!) Nobody can expect you to have an hour's concert programme as a beginner, but you'll get there eventually

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

[LDT]

I think this depends on where you are with the concertina - beginner or advanced.

after over a year...I still think I'm beginner.

 

At the start, you're learning three things at once: the instrument, the tunes, and the structure of your favourite type of music. This is why it's a good thing to start with tunes that you already know, so you have one factor less to work at, and you can hear when you're doing it right or wrong.

Doesn't help when my fave type is grunge-goth-rock-emo pop (think Evanescence, AFI, Nirvana).

 

For many of us (musicians and listeners alike), playing an instrument means performing for others, even if it's only friends and family. So you absolutely need these "party pieces"! (i.e. become a Jack of all trades and master of a couple!) Nobody can expect you to have an hour's concert programme as a beginner, but you'll get there eventually

I don't think I could keep them 'putting up with' my playing for an hour.

[geoffwright]

Depends how many sessions a week you go to. If you are out at a couple of sessions every week, can you really get by on a handful of tunes?. Do YOU really want to hear the same people play the same few tunes year-in-year-out?

 

My theory is

• 
  learn to play well
  learn to learn tunes
  learn loads of tunes
  pass on loads of tunes
  

 

If you are a regular session attender, you will have the chance to learn new tunes - make sure you do - keep a notebook to put tune names in

You will also be in a position to teach other people loads of tunes - make sure you do - at learners speed

 

Unfortunately, I take things to extremes, playing never-ending sets of tunes - simply to pass on as many as I can

[m3838]

At the start, you're learning three things at once: the instrument, the tunes, and the structure of your favourite type of music. This is why it's a good thing to start with tunes that you already know, so you have one factor less to work at, and you can hear when you're doing it right or wrong.

Doesn't help when my fave type is grunge-goth-rock-emo pop (think Evanescence, AFI, Nirvana).

 

Forget about concertina then. It's too cheerful and cute. Go with the electronic gadget. Plenty of teachers, plenty of inexpensive instruments, lots of tutor books with CDs. Compare this with very small tight circle of dorky concertina players, mostly been left to yourself, most books are about folk "hop-hoppy " dances. Clearly nothing like modern pop, which is mostly about the rhythm. I despise the music styles you mentioned, I think those guys are your average posers, but to each it's own and you need to go with the tool that matches the job. If the tool can't be mastered by various reasons, either try again, or the job is not for you. Why spending your life in a perpetual gimble lock?

Edited December 7, 2009 by m3838

[LDT]

Clearly nothing like modern pop, which is mostly about the rhythm. I despise the music styles you mentioned, I think those guys are your average posers, but to each it's own and you need to go with the tool that matches the job. If the tool can't be mastered by various reasons, either try again, or the job is not for you. Why spending your life in a perpetual gimble lock?

 

Would have thought it would have been your perfect genre

 

You mean you don't like rhythm?

 

Has no idea what a gimble lock is

[PeterT]

Has no idea what a gimble lock is